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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#150678: Feb 19th 2019 at 11:20:12 AM

@acw: Resident Evil 2 (Remake) now has its own page. Could we cross-wick for Iron's entry in the subpage.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#150679: Feb 19th 2019 at 11:20:43 AM

Leaning yes on Erich, even with the high standard, but...how aware is he that World War III could happen?

Mir: I'll take care of that when I have a break at work.

Edited by ACW on Feb 19th 2019 at 2:21:40 PM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#150680: Feb 19th 2019 at 11:21:49 AM

[up] To him, he doesn't really think about it, but he's well aware that he would be killing billions of people regardless.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Feb 19th 2019 at 11:25:20 AM

"No running in the halls!"
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#150683: Feb 19th 2019 at 11:27:36 AM

I'll give a yes. Even if others try to destroy multiple countries, with nukes, unless someone did it with a virus-laced nuke, he seems to stand out.

Voiced by Doug Boyd, who also voiced Torquemada.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
AFreakyDude Since: Jul, 2015
#150685: Feb 19th 2019 at 11:41:34 AM

[tup] Strupper

Also, Mysterio has his own page now in case anyone wants to edit his Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions version in the Video Games L To Z section.

therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#150686: Feb 19th 2019 at 11:42:38 AM

Doug Boyd also voiced Forrest Kaysen.

And here's the second Syphon Filter candidate.

Who Is he?

Vincent Hadden is the shadowy leader (literally, his entire head in the first game is nothing but shadow) of the Agency, and the power-hungry main villain of the original PS1 trilogy, and while he takes orders from his investor Mihai Niculescu, he still manages to be a nasty piece of work.

What has he done?

Working with Niculescu as a way to go from Secretary of State to US President, Hadden gets ahold of the Sphon Filter virus thanks to the Agency and presents himself as keeping it at bay, when really he’s just planning to exchange it for a stake in the virus's profits and use. He would later go on to start his own Arms Consortium, an arms dealing black market where he would sell the Syphon Filter virus to various foreign terrorist organizations, making him both wealthy and able to rise in status when the inevitable attack on American soil allows him to become a warrior once more and save his people from a crisis of his invention. Niculescu was placed as the head of his Consortium, given that he was the mastermind behind the Syphon Filter outbreak and was a critical financer for the company. While Logan and the rest of the Agency are trying to stop the virus, Hadden is secretly trying to kill them (and has succeeded in gunning down a plane full of Agency members), also having anyone who fails him killed by Aramov, such as one guy who had his neck broken by her under Hadden’s orders.

His ultimate endgame in the second and third game is to sell the virus to the evil general Shi-Hao, who plans to use the virus to kill off a lot of Chinese people and have the People’s Republic of China go to war with itself, bringing Russia into the battle as well, which is exactly what Hao’s hoping for. Hadden is completely aware of this plan of Hao’s, and doesn’t care in the slightest, just as long as he gets to use the war as a way to make him the President of America. While doing this, he seeks to use the attack as a way to control the distribution for the Syphon Filter virus. Once news of the Agency’s shady dealings goes public, Hadden tries to throw the entire organization under the bus to protect his position and image.

With Logan managing to kill Shi-Hao, Hadden has him put under trial as a way to arrest and blame him for everything that’s happened. While coming close to convicting Lian and Logan, Hadden is ultimately foiled by the arrival of the supposedly deceased Teresa Lipan, who reveals his Consortium, exposing him as a madman. Hadden tries to make a getaway, but is killed by Aramov under Niculescu’s orders.

Redeeming Qualities?

There’s a scene at the end of the second game where Aramov and loads of the Agency’s soldiers can just kill Logan right then and there while he’s attending Teresa’s funeral, but Hadden prevents them from doing that so he can just frame Logan and throw him in prison. This isn’t meant to be redeeming, it just shows him to be an overconfident idiot who thinks Logan’s not as cool and smart as everyone says he is (despite the fact that he and Lian just took down his entire organization!).

Heinousness?

While he’s under Niculescu’s thumb in regards to selling the virus for money, he is still a terrible dude who desires absolute political power, and is personally willing to risk the lives of Asia and even the people of his own country in order to do so.

Conclusion

I also see him as a keep.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Feb 19th 2019 at 11:44:05 AM

"No running in the halls!"
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#150687: Feb 19th 2019 at 11:44:45 AM

[tup]hadden

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Bullman "The Juice is Loose." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#150690: Feb 19th 2019 at 11:59:35 AM

Yes to the above. Waiting for mara now.

TheUnsquished Filthy casual from Southern Limey Land (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Married to the job
Filthy casual
#150691: Feb 19th 2019 at 12:03:25 PM

[tup] Erich and Hadden.

I've got someone from another Commando story here, although I don't think he's as clear-cut.

What's the story?

"Lost Legion" starts with the demise of the titular legion in the Lower Rhineland in the third century A.D., before fast-forwarding to the Second World War where a Nazi attempts to wipe out an Allied unit a similar way in the same region. My focus is the architect of the legion's doom - - a young man named Lotar.

Who's Lotar? What has he done?

Lotar is the son of Grunnar, the chieftain of a powerful tribe. Captured several years before the story starts, he was doomed to die a slave in the arena until his heritage came to the notice of one senator Septimus Severus. The senator bought him, and offered him free passage home on the grounds he consented to learn latin as well as building and engineering skills. Hopefully he would be able to convince his father that it would be better that his people would be part of the empire, rather than striving against it. It was to backfire badly.

He returns to the Romans two months later, claiming that the delay was because of talks with local chiefs. His father was to meet with the senator, who commanded the legion, in the Oher Valley. Lotar was accompanied by a guard to meet with his father, but the guard is attacked by archers in some trees. Grunnar orders the corpses hung by their ankles from high branches.

It turned out that Grunnar's tribe had spent the two months cutting down trees to build a dam. Lotar gloats on how he's turned the Roman's education against them, and how the mightiest structure can be brought down by the removal of keystones — or in this case key logs. The key logs are removed by teams of men hauling on ropes, and the dammed water bursts free, sweeping the legion away in the resulting tidal wave. Before he dies, Marcus Tiberius — the legion's deputy — curses Lotar and his kind for all time, "and it starts now!" Marcus said this because he noticed that the flow of water had undercut the overhang Lotar and Grunnar were standing on. The overhang collapses, causing Lotar and Grunnar to plunge to their doom.

Mitigating factors?

Here's the issue: The Romans were obviously the invaders here, and Lotar himself had been doomed to die in the arena before the senator had intervened. I don't really know if that mitigates his actions.

Conclusion?

I'm not sure. If he doesn't count, then I might try EPing the Nazi officer. If he does, then the Nazi officer might not count in comparison. It is, as always, up to you.

(Annoyed grunt)
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#150692: Feb 19th 2019 at 12:06:25 PM

[tup] Hadden.

Lighty, you think it's Mara? It seems like Niculescu would be a better candidate (behind basically the whole thing, ala Alan Wilson).

EDIT: Unsure on Lotar.

EDIT 2: The fan works entries:

  • The Princess and the Knight: Noxymis is an evil wizard and former adviser to the King of Rosym. Angered by his banishment, Noxymis kidnaps Princess Jadelyn and frames Rosym, in order to draw out Victoria. Noxymis then takes her hostage and uses her to get a powerful gem from Trina. Taking over Rosym, Noxymis tries to start a war with Reinhart. He also attempts to use the gem to force Jadelyn to fall in love with him. When a knight of Rosym frees Jadelyn, Noxymis has his brother try to kill him. In the final battle, Noxymis tries to use a giant wave to kill everyone, before mortally wounding Victoria.
  • Sonic: Dr. Robotnik, formerly known as Julian Kintobor, declares war on Mobius under the belief that society should be under his leadership, beginning his path of destruction by committing genocide on almost all of the South Islanders. Taking over Station Square, he has his forces overwhelm the G.U.N. Soldiers trying to stop him, and even attempts to have one of them murdered in cold blood. When Sonic stops this, he then proceeds to brutally torture a captured soldier for information on the Blue Blur, and when the soldier fails to provide him with the info, Robotnik orders the man to be robotized against his will. When an group of soldiers try to fight back, Robotnik orders his forces to ambush and mercilessly kill them. After Sonic saves the soldiers, Robotnik immediately orders his forces to kill Sonic for daring to interfere with his plans for conquest. Claiming that he's a well-intentioned man who's acting in the people's best interests, Dr. Robotnik is in reality a cruel, ruthless Mad Scientist who would kill anyone who would dare to get in his way.

Edited by ACW on Feb 19th 2019 at 3:14:05 PM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
TheUnsquished Filthy casual from Southern Limey Land (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Married to the job
Filthy casual
#150693: Feb 19th 2019 at 12:17:40 PM

Does the fact that story claims the total death toll was around ten thousand men help?

(Annoyed grunt)
Bullman "The Juice is Loose." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
"The Juice is Loose."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#150695: Feb 19th 2019 at 12:21:29 PM

[tdown] Lotar. He honestly barely sounds like a villain at all, given that his victims are an invading arny.

therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#150696: Feb 19th 2019 at 12:22:00 PM

And now for the final Syphon Filter candidate, or as I would like to call it: The One That Will Disappoint Lighty.

What Is the Work?

Syphon Filter: The Omega Strain is a PS2 game that serves as the fourth installment in the series, and is considered by many to be the true finale of the franchise, as it finally rids of the Syphon Filter virus (the next two games are just Gabe and Lian going on unrelated missions). Funnily enough, the game was originally going to be just online multiplayer until Sony forced the company to include a single-player campaign.

This game actually has the player controlling some generic up-incoming Agency agent out to stop the spread of a new virus, the Omega Strain. Meanwhile Gabe and Lian try to take down the new threat, General Ivankov, as he sells the new virus to multiple terrorists. But Ivankov isn’t the only evil Russian the Agency has to worry about.

Who Is he?

Mihai Niculescu is the Greater-Scope Villain of the original PS1 trilogy, and one of the main villains of the game, where he makes his first appearance. He’s the one behind the entire Syphon Filter project, serving as The Consortium's hidden leader and Vincent Hadden’s boss.

What has he done?

An international banker who ranks as the third richest man in the world, Niculescu used his financial influence to put himself on numerous international boards including UN, NATO, and Olympic Councils. As he hid from the public, his desire to manipulate global affairs developed into connections with criminal forces and the plot to create the Syphon Filter virus as a bioweapon to be sold for money. Niculescu first established the shadow corporation Meta Global Funds to direct all events in the operation. He then orchestrated the takeover of several companies to participate in it, such as Pugari Mining in South Africa and Murakawa Industries from Japan. While other conspirators served his second-in-command Vincent Hadden, Niculescu preferred to purposefully keep his distance and remained a recluse; he used Mara Aramov as his own personal assassin, the two having met at an unspecified time years ago.

He has numerous people kidnapped to have the virus tested on them, then approving of Hadden’s plans to keep the virus in check, such as having whatever suspecting Agency members killed. He created the virus in order to sell it to multiple countries to be used as a weapon for war. When Hadden ends up failing to arrest and murder Logan, Niculescu sends Aramov to kill him due to seeing him now as expendable.

Creating the Omega Strain, an even deadlier version of Syphon Filter, he plans to have it sold to multiple terrorist organizations for money. He’s also used his banks to finance multiple criminal enterprises like the Anarchiste Libertaire Armee (ALA), who also plan to use the Omega Strain for their own benefit. Hearing that his rogue general Ivankov is planning to nuke Moscow, he tries to stop him from doing that only because he wants to infect the city with the virus and make a profit selling vaccines and cures. However, I guess because he’s an idiot, he thinks that Ivankov put his Omega Strain virus inside the nuke and is launching it in order to infect Moscow, and Niculescu is totally willing to let 10 million of his own people die as a way to raise his stock prices as he sells the antidote (to a bunch of corpses, man this guy is dumb). When Mara Aramov, in a rare moment of kindness, tries to escape and warn her people/hometown, Niculescu drugs her and attempts to have her killed for trying to betray him.

Niculescu ends up being killed in the true ending by a bunch of criminals who storm his hideout after his banks start to drain money from various criminal enterprises' stocks. I should note that to get the true ending, you need to complete the game 100%, but that’s impossible now thanks to the online servers going down in 2012. In the standard ending, Niculescu gets away with everything due to nobody knowing his true location.

Redeeming Qualities?

Awhile back he dated the kind Dr. E, though we never see him talk about it, and E sounds saddened as she confesses this. Either way, he shows no love for her or anybody.

Heinousness?

Serves as the ultimate evil of the series, and even manages to freak out the amoral Aramov. While Ivankov is a very bad dude, there’s a scene where he tells his soldiers to not let his men die in vain, which shows that he at least has some care for his troops.

Conclusion

I think he’s an easy keep.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Feb 19th 2019 at 12:23:25 PM

"No running in the halls!"
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#150697: Feb 19th 2019 at 12:22:20 PM

Unsquished: That does help. He still does have a Freudian Excuse, yet was treated kindly...does the story itself portray him as sympathetic?

Also, I took care of Mysterio; here's a de-potholed writeup:

  • Shattered Dimensions: Mysterio—Quentin Beck—is portrayed as far more wicked and dangerous than in the comic. Failing to steal the Tablet of Order and Chaos due to Spider-Man's interference, Mysterio escapes with one of the now-shattered fragments of the Tablet. Realizing the power of his fragment, Mysterio goes on a rampage, destroying anything in his path. After finding Madame Web's location, Mysterio tortures her, then uses her as a hostage to force Spider-Man to retrieve the rest of the Tablet's fragments for him. Restoring the Tablet to its original state, Mysterio gains god-like powers, destroys the Multiverse, and plans to remake it in his image.

Edited by ACW on Feb 19th 2019 at 3:22:38 PM

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TheUnsquished Filthy casual from Southern Limey Land (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Married to the job
Filthy casual
#150698: Feb 19th 2019 at 12:23:39 PM

I think [tup] for Mihai Niculescu

(Annoyed grunt)
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#150699: Feb 19th 2019 at 12:24:29 PM

[tup]Niculescu

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman "The Juice is Loose." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP

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