During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Cain
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
yea on all of the above.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Cain and Whisper
Whisper. You'd be surprised what we miss, you know. Like, Batman's absurdly popular, but he's also been in a lot of comics. That we've overlooked some candidates isn't too surprising knowing that. Good job!
And Cain. Looking forward to what you got planned for us Lighty.
Whispers and Cain
Can we put Show!Ramsay's entry above Gregor and Craster's entries, since he is more important character than these two, beign member of Big Bad Ensemble during season six?
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
No. Why does that matter? 
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm fine with whatever; I don't even know how they were ordered originally.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
And to Mr. Whisper and Tubal Cain.
Whisper and Cain.
The wifi here sucks
Here's an image proposal for Volgin. (link: https://imgur.com/gallery/jMYJRFX)
Edited by papyru30 on Nov 15th 2018 at 5:25:08 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Just walked out of Crimes of Grindelwald. PM if you have questions.
Edited by Beast on Nov 15th 2018 at 7:07:28 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Nope. Doesn't work at all. Terrible quality and without context he could be shooting a rocket at anyone.
Edited by Scraggle on Nov 15th 2018 at 5:46:16 AM
I was just reading about Surviving the Game, and I can’t believe Doc Hawkins is not listed. Isn’t he the head of the hunters in Hell’s Canyon?
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Alright, here's the candidate from the manga that I read yesterday just as I promised. Be reminded that the story is weird. I mean really really weird that it would judge your perception regarding this candidate and possibly affect his qualification as a whole. But, I'm not sad if he doesn't qualify or the opposite. Without further ado, let's begin the EP shall we:
What's the Work
OPUS is a manga by Satoshi Kon that tells us the story of a manga author, Chikara Nagai, that tries to make the ending of his own sci-fi manga, Resonance. Unfortunately one of the characters of his manga named Lin gained a self awareness and protested to Chikara about the ending that will killed him even though he beat the antagonist of the manga known as The Masque in the final volume.
As a result, Lin stole the prototype of the drawing for the ending from Chikara and as a result, the latter was dragged into his own manga and this follows the weird adventures of Chikara to save his own manga and most of the character in his manga are alive including the protagonist, Satoko, and together they fight against the villain known as The Masque which is the candidate that I want to brought here today
Who is He/What Has He Done
Well, the Masque is actually the main villain of Resonance and basically the protagonist, Satoko's, Arch nemesis. He is a head of a cult known as "The Nameless Faith" and has the abilities to brainwash some people to convert to his side in order to make them escape from the shell of individualty and it was also revealed that the Police Chief in said manga? Was also brainwashed by him to the point that the protagonist, Satoko, almost got killed by the Chief but got revived again in the real world for reasons...
It turns out that all of the brainwashing for the greater good? Was all total bullshit as it was revealed that he wants to control all the world in the manga for himself for his own purposes. When Chikara returns to the world of his manga again, it was revealed that he tries to erase the world of the manga and tries to start the world anew while mocking Chikara that despite being a god who create the manga, he is unable to save the world that fades away including Satoko herself who got almost killed by the brainwashed chief. And it was also revealed that he switches the penmanship from Chikara.
After Chikara, the revived Satoko and the psychic girl known as Mari travels into Volume 1 of Resonance in order to save the world by trying to found Lin, we saw the flashbacks of the Masque and it was revealed that he was a serial killer of children who netted around 5-6 victims and his M Os is that he brutally murders them while disguising himself as another person such as the cop or a woman who nearly kills a telepathic cop named Sawamura and after he done the said murders towards the children, he left their body naked. Why did he murder some people? Because he feels jealous that the girls whom he had murdered had a beautiful body part and he feel rather estatic to do it to the point that even Chikara was disgusted when he drew that scene.
It was also revealed that the Masque/Serial Killer kidnapped the young Satoko and as a result, both Chikara, Mai and the present Satoko tries to rescue them by tracking the hideout of the Serial Killer. This resulted in a shootout between the protagonists and him.
Unfortunately, the Serial Killer found one of the volume of the manga and aware what was happening. When Sawamura tries to kill said Serial Killer, the latter than shoots him which ended up potentially changing the ending. Fortunately, both Chikara and Lin knocks the Serial Killer out. However, the spirit of the Masque came out from the Serial Killer and claims that he had been always inside all of the characters all the time including Chikara himself and tries to control the world of the manga and as a result, the world of the manga almost shattered and both Chikara and his characters from the manga fell down from the sky. Sadly, the manga is left unfinished and it is unknown what happens to the Mask. Not even helping that the creator died 8 years ago so yeah...
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
So this is where it gets very very tricky. The manga itself? Is a story about a talented manga artist who got a Writers Block. And mainly because of the complaint of the characters who ended up dying left and right especially on Lin's case because he was intended to be murdered by the Masque in the finale set by Chikara himself and both Lin and Satoko calls Chikara out about him toying the lives of the manga characters especially the minor ones and Chikara's justification is that he wanted to try to make the manga very interesting to read for the audience. This possibly affect the Masque's moral agency in question given that some of his doing are because of what Chikara's drew. That, and in the end of the day Chikara is actually a manga character that got transported into Satoshi Kon's world doesn't help the matters.
Still, I think at the end, moral agency of Masque is not a question here considered the manga characters? Gain some sort of self-sentience even for the Masque himself who reject his destiny and wanted to control everybody in the manga. That and the Past!Masque found out the manga about him and decided to defy his role by shooting the Police Officer which would change the ending entirely and mocks Chikara that his unable to help his fading settings and people on the manga and tries to switch the penmanship from Chikara to him does help matters a little bit. And as a character? He has zilch redeeming qualities and him trying to brainwash people for greater good are just bullshit up to eleven and it was revealed that he just wanted to control people so yeah...
Heinous Standard
Given the narrative of the story? Yeah, both Chikara and Lin contributes to the heinous standard considered the former toyed with his manga character's lives to make the manga interesting and is a bit responsible of some of the Masque actions and the latter stole the prototype of the final chapter from Chikara and try to use a cheat method to beat the Masque which causes the world to be distorted a little bit.
But the Masque? I think he just met the standard. Given that he was a Serial Killer of children previously, numerous of brainwashing including the chief and attempts to kill the heroine with the chief and when gained self-intelligence, he does attempt to erase the existence of the manga so that he could control it and oh! I also forgot that he also toys with Chikara memories by erasing one of his memories and as a Serial Killer, he attempts to change the ending by shooting the cop? Yeah...
Final Verdict
Uhhh... I think at the end of the day, I'm just abstaining on the Masque to be honest. But I won't be mad if he doesn't qualify or the opposite considered the story is rather weird at times. However, even if the story is rather weird, I admit that the manga is good and the protagonist feels rather relatable to me considered on what he experienced regarding Writer's Block and deciding the fate of the characters which resulted on him losing his talent so yeah... Shame that it got cancelled and not even helping that Satoshi Kon died of Pancreatic Cancer in 2010 which resulted the manga getting discontinued forever. Also, I should note that the manga itself was made before Perfect Blue existed so that's something to consider.
P.S. No! I am not making this up or taking some LSD before doing the EP. The manga existed and you could read it in Mangarock
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 15th 2018 at 8:16:40 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
@FreakyDude: You mean Gary Busey's character? No. He's a lot more psycho than the rest if I recall and he had a founding role, but he's not actual authority like Thomas and Walter and he's also killed off significantly earlier than them before he can really do anything of note.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
to Masque
To Masque
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Masq
Shin Megami Tensei IV
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Masque.
Edited by Beast on Nov 15th 2018 at 8:33:17 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for the Masque.
