During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Probably doesn't count but I ended up writing two or three fic villains in stories I haven't posted yet that went above and beyond their Freudian Excuse (and at least two where the excuse was BS). But then again since I didn't even post the fics, they aren't being discussed so I guess they don't count.
Edited by Beast on Nov 9th 2018 at 10:11:40 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Anxiously awaiting the Casper the Friendly Ghost adaptation that reveals Casper's death as being one of the kids that got raped and dissected by the guys from 120 Days of Sodom.
And yes I'm aware Casper is Harvey, not Archie.
Tentative ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
on Madam Satan. She's irreedeemable but I feel there still may be a bit more to learn about her. None the less she passes. I am just not giving an easy yes right now due to the very slight possibility that a mitigating factor could pop up later on.
Madam Satan
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Isn't it ironic (don't you think?) that the actual Casper movie that describes his death (the Casper I gre up with) was the Darker and Edgier adaptation ?
Edited by Beast on Nov 9th 2018 at 10:20:43 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
@ HT, I too await the day ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@HT I think I'm late to answer your question but I think its because peeps like Darker and Edgier work I guess because it will make it more mature towards the audience. Proven by people who likes Goblin Slayer and thinks its a dark but realistic fantasy.
p.s. Oh boy a Darker Casper Adaptation... i will wait for that *grabs popcorn*
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 9th 2018 at 11:31:36 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Yeah, with all the unanimous upvotes, I guess I'll give a weak to Madame Satan.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
@elfen Sorry I'm late to answer your question but yes jerome Valeksa.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Current mood: sick of your shit
Alright, everyone. I'm back with yet another theme park villain. Out of all the ones I've done so far, this is probably the one that I'm going to be leaning towards "No" the most, but he's been buzzing in my head for a while and I figured I might as well put him out there and see what you think.
The work: "Pinocchio Unstrung" is a haunted attraction at Knotts Berry Farm's Halloween overlay "Knotts Scary Farm", loosely based on The Adventures of Pinocchio by the late Carlo Collodi.
The villain: The villain is the main protagonist and titular character Pinocchio, who has been reimagined from an innocent child to a vengeful killer.
Who is Pinocchio? What has he done? Pinocchio's story begins like it does in the book: Gepetto wishes for him to be a real boy, and the Blue Fairy comes and grants the wish. Pinocchio is naive, but is overall friendly. The Blue Fairy tells him that if he wants to be a real boy, he must prove himself brave, kind, and unselfish. The story then proceeds like in the book: Pinocchio encounters Stromboli and escapes his evil puppet shows, travels to Pleasure Island and escapes the devious coachman Barker, and eventually saves his Gepetto from Monstro the Angler Fish (Monstro is a massive, man-eating angler fish in this version). However, he performs these actions with more violence and toughness, proving himself brave, but not kind or unselfish. When he returns home, the Blue Fairy sees the darkness left in his heart and refuses to turn him into a real boy.
Pinocchio is shocked and angered by this, and secludes himself in Gepetto's cottage. He is angered by the fact that he will receive no reward for his good deeds, and sits and ponders and obsesses over it for the next twenty years.
During that time, Pinocchio obsessed so hard and for so long that he finally broke down and snapped, and began formulating revenge on the Blue Fairy for denying him and everyone else he met on his adventures for "causing it". Pinocchio starts by attacking his father Gepetto with a knife and killing him, proceeding to cut off his face. Pinocchio then escaped into the town and became a serial killer, attacking people in their homes, killing them, and cutting off their faces. He sews the faces he collects into a mask, which he proceeds to wear. Pinocchio continues his killing spree until the town is completely empty.
When the Blue Fairy comes to intervene, Pinocchio hacks off her wings with a knife and steals her wand. He proceeds to lock the now powerless fairy in his home, where he tortures her for years. Pinocchio mutilates, then reassembles the corpses of his victims into marionettes, then uses magic to force them back to life to serve him. He kills Stromboli, and proceeds to gut him and decorate the old theater with his entrails.
Pinocchio then goes and kills Barker, taking over Pleasure Island and forcing any humans (especially children) that come by into the park so its magic can turn them into donkey slaves that he uses as slave labor or simply beats and tortures.
When guests arrive to the attraction, Pinocchio attempts to chain them up and force them to become puppets, but is distracted by the Blue Fairy trying to escape. Guests escape into the town, where they get to witness firsthand the results of Pinocchio's mad killings, as they are attacked throughout the town by killer corpse marionettes. They also get to witness the even darker Pleasure Island, with children turned into donkeys kept in cages.
Pinocchio returns and gives chase, chasing the guests to the ocean where Monstro is waiting to swallow them whole. There, they find that Pinocchio has grown tired of torturing the Blue Fairy and has thrown her to Monstro. She is still alive in the fish's stomach, pleading for help as she is slowly digested. The guests manage to escape Monstro by climbing back out its mouth, where Pinocchio waits to attack again. Guests escape this next attack and come across Jimminy Cricket, who cannot help them. As the guests prepare to escape the town, Pinocchio shows off his greatest creation: a massive, living duplicate of himself made of human bones, skin, and cloth. It wields a hammer and attacks the guests, finally defeating them.
Mitigating factors/Freudian excuses: Pinocchio's backstory can be interpreted as a tragic one, as he was a hero who did good deeds, but for a selfish reason. His later villainous actions possibly overshadow that, but perhaps not entirely. Also, in a pre-show exclusive to certain guests, Pinocchio seemingly lets guests go into the town, though he tires to kill them several times later both with his minions and himself.
Heinous Standard: Since the attraction is a loose adaption/follow-up to the book, Barker a.k.a. the Coachman is vile enough in his deeds at Pleasure Island. There also exist the villains of Stromboli and Monstro, but Stromboli bears little threat, and Monstro is an amoral, ravenous animal.
Final Verdict? Unsure. I think his backstory and former desire to do good are pretty big mitigating factors, but his later actions could overshadow them. Leaning towards ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
, but like I said, has been buzzing in my head for a while and I would like some other thoughts.
gonna vote nay
Goku Black
Madame Satan
Also did people really bring up Zorin of all bad guys. Like Mayday was born the exact same way and is nowhere near as bad as him, the dude is a sociopath but he doesnt need to be EVIL. Also no he doesn't care about his father, its just a business relationship.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Current mood: sick of your shit
Also Madame Satan
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
No to Pinocchio.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Honestly? I'm gonna a give a to phinochio.
to Pinnochio. He seems to willingly abandon any redeeming qualities he had, and the fact that his turn to darkness was as a result of him not getting what he wanted is a sign that it really isn't disqualifying. And killing enough people to make a duplicate of himself made out of the flesh of his former victims is pretty damn nasty, Coachman or no.
Hell, the fact that he takes over Pleasure Island and continues it's operations makes the heinous standard even less of an issue
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Nov 9th 2018 at 1:46:41 PM
Lizzid people!
I'll give a to Pinocchio as well.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
I honestly abstain on Pinocchio. But I will lean yea and dont mind if he got up. And if he got up? I'll add him on my list of C Ms who subvert their FE.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 10th 2018 at 1:40:41 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
On second thought I'll switch to a week yes to Pinnochio.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Pinocchio
Yes to madam Satan, abstain on pinocchio.
Lilith and Pinocchio
@Beast: Nice ManBearPig pic! It turns out he is real after all and we have to watch out for him and not just spend our time playing Red Dead Redemption 2. Im super-duper cereal!
Speaking of Red Dead Redemption 2 has anyone found any qualifiers? I know OccasionalExister reserve that work so has anyone heard from him?
I'll give a to Pinocchio
@Lightysnake: I'll give a to Madam Satan from the Spin-Off of Riverdale. Speaking of Riverdale did you ever watch Riverdale from CW? If so did you like it? If you didnt why?
Sorry man I just had a really long day. I lost my wallet on the bus today. The wallet contained my State ID, cash, debit card, my social security number etc and I had to skip class just to spend the whole day trying to find it to no avail! Thankfully a Nice Girl on found my wallet and gave it back to me this evening so I'm a bit better.
Edited by G-Editor on Nov 9th 2018 at 9:38:14 AM
I don't give one single solitary damn about Riverdale at all.
And I did sya I was in contact with OE, people. Seriously, G, chill on some stuff.
@Loops
We've had plenty of characters qualify as CMs before the series they were in ended. So long as they do enough to stand out with what we've seen of them so far, they're fair game.