During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
RIP Toriyama
Happy Birthday to me, Happy Birthday to me, Happy Birthday to Ravok, Happy Birthday to me!!! Woo-hoo, yay....
Anywho, 'Yes' to Kench. I myself had considered proposing him awhile back, but he got lost to the abyss of my many to-do lists....but yeah, of all the characters, Kench is easily one of the most actively sadistic, and add that with his massacre at the wedding, which is only one of no doubt countless escapades, and Kench is a clear Keep IMO.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Happy birthday Ravok! How old are you turning?
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Happy Birthday Ravok. 
Happy birthday, Ravok. Easy yes to Kench, as well.
Lizzid people!
Happy birthday, Ravok.
Also, back onto the subject of Pokemon for a brief second... with the dub of Volcanion and the Mechanical Marvel coming out this month, I've got a character from one of the movies who needs to be cut posthaste and something I've been dawdling on for a while. The Iron-Masked Marauder needs to go.
Why? It's as simple as the fact he fails the heinous standard now. Iron Mask is a generic "conquer the world" villain in a world that now has no less than three omnicidal villains (Mewtwo, Cyrus, and Lysandre - not including rampaging Legendaries). The rest of his crimes don't stand out anymore; as shown, multiple villains have tried to kill Ash, abused Pokemon, and otherwise replicated his crimes by a dozen and then some. His only really unique crime at this point is the use of the Dark Balls and even that stands as pretty run-of-the-mill brainwashing from where I stand. And before you ask... Mechanical Marvel villain is going to be complicating the heinous standard for him even further, but I'll let ANewMan handle that when it comes down to it.
So for now? I say burn. Any objections?
Wild Child
The Marauder's been bugging me for a while lately. I'd say cut him as well.
Why so serious?
He barely hung on by being heinous enough... till it got worse. Cut him.
The Marauder isn't any less heinous than J or Kodai and we still have them here....
Happy Birthday Ravok!
edited 9th Nov '16 8:59:59 PM by username2527
Lizzid people!
But they've done far worse. J, especially, aided Cyrus in his plans in addition to her personal crimes.
edited 9th Nov '16 9:01:37 PM by AustinDR
Avatar by Leafsnake
Yeah, ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Marauder. The heinous standard has risen above him. Also, happy birthday Ravok.
Cut the Marauder.
Happy birthday, Ravok!
RIP Toriyama
@Awesome Kid: Turning 19. I'M GETTING OLD!!!!
And yeah, I'll throw in a 'cut' vote for the Marauder. The guy's a jackass, but has been overshadowed by an ever-increasing heinous standard.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's... actually significantly younger than I was expecting. I genuinely believed you were in your early - mid 20s at least.
On the argument on the Marauder, you can make a valid argument Kodai still has less room to act on the Marauder's scale as he used Celebi's power in a much more localized way than the Marauder did. Also, keep in mind? The dude's responsible for torturing a child to near-death onscreen. In front of his mother. Whom he directly kills later. That's a type of crime unique to him and him alone. No villain in the Pokemon universe matches Kodai when it comes to personal depravities. And no, J is much more heinous than the Marauder in terms of what she does to both people and Pokemon alike, never mind the whole "helping to destroy the universe" thing.
If no one else objects, I'm going to request Marauder be cut now.
edited 9th Nov '16 9:40:34 PM by Scraggle
Huh. Only about a month older than me.
I'm fine with cutting the marauder.
Speaking of Pokemon, I'm wondering if the main games will ever have someone who's a CM or not. Because we've had a few who could've qualified, but fell short
- Cyrus: Definitely an Knight of Cerebus, but had genuine utopic ambitions and Freudian Excuse to compensate
- Ghetsis: Doesn't have a good bone in his body, but not exaggerated in his evil and the abuse of N is implied
- Lysandre: Same as Cyrus
I don't know why there hasn't been a CM in the main series mind you, given the Ranger Games had the same rating and general tone yet we got Purple Eyes
With Jojo, I think I figured why Dio Brando still counts; while Pucci seems like a Morality Pet, it's not conclusively been made clear whether he actually cares for him or was using the priest. The only two people he seemed to care about were Jonathan and Giorno, the latter of which is from a non-canon game and the former of which amounted to Villain Respect more than any genuine love or compassion.
There's a slim chance that Dio could be disqualified if it turns out he genuinely cared for Pucci, but that would require Araki to give us a non-Unreliable Narrator exploration and that ain't happening any time soon
Also I get why nobody in the original Dragonball counted even with the lowered heinous standard back then-the only one who fufilled it was King Piccolo, who had Benevolent Boss as his one humanizing trait. Also the whole moral agency thing, though that's questionable since Piccolo Jr is suppose to be the same guy but didn't stay pure evil
@ Towa: Is it confirmed that she doesn't care about her brother or creation, and even so she's a demon. Is her class of demons Always Chaotic Evil, and would that impact her moral agency
edited 9th Nov '16 10:49:45 PM by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93
I made an argument against King Piccolo being a Benevolent Boss a couple of months ago. Still didn't make the cut because of the Made of Evil reason though. I believe the difference between Piccolo Jr's moral agency and King Piccolo's moral agency is that while Piccolo Jr is treated as Kami's evil half, he was still born the same way King Piccolo's other children, a spat out egg, where while King Piccolo was born when the original nameless namek split himself into two different entities.
edited 9th Nov '16 10:58:00 PM by Awesomekid42
To the Iron-Masked Marauder, whose villainy has not aged well. Does that mean we need to replace his quote on the Pokemon Monster page, and replace it with a new one?
Also I think Dr. Yung should be cut too. His crimes don't stack up to the heinous standard either, especially in comparision to the other Mad Scientist CM on here, Charon.
If he does count, then his post should be rewritten at least, it doesn't sell it IMO.
Marauder. I'm not familiar with Pokemon's heinous standard, but I guess from what I, he doesn't sound that bad.
Happy birthday Ravok. Now you're as old as me :)
I say cut the Iron Mask Marauder
Happy Birthday Ravok! 
you think you're getting old, I'm turning 20 next week! ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
The anime, games and manga are all separate continuities, so shouldn't they have separate heinous standards?
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Marauder.
@Ravok: Oh my god. I'm older than you. D:
edited 10th Nov '16 1:55:48 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ravok: Only 19??? 
Happy b-day!
I second the question about the different heinous standards, but other than that I guess I'm fine with cutting. Anyone got a good quote for the Pokemon page then?
edited 10th Nov '16 1:00:13 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
New proposal, from Abraxas, Guardian of the Universe.
Who's the candidate?
Secundus, Abraxas's rogue former partner, who's come to Earth.
What does he do?
After arriving on Earth, Secundus kidnaps a woman and forcibly impregnates her with his magic hands. Abraxas captures him, but not before he proclaims that his son will discover the "Anti-Live Equation" that will give Secundus infinite power.
Five years later, Secundus escapes prison. When Abraxas learns this, we also learn that the Anti-Life Equation opens a gate to the Anti-Life Universe, which Secundus plans to enter, and that his doing so could cause a planet-destroying energy wave.
Secundus returns to Earth with Abraxas in hot pursuit. He tries to make a guy give him his car keys, but the sap throws them into a nearby campfire. Secundus tries to make the guy grab the keys from the fire, but his son intervenes and gets them with a stick. It's not clear what would have happened to the people, because Abraxas intervenes and forces Secundus to flee.
Secundus goes to a mechanic's shop to recharge a device of his when the mechanic interrupts him. Secundus proceeds to test him for the Equation, which disintegrates him because he doesn't have it.
Secundus goes to the local city hall and wrecks the place (killing a few people) to get the name of his kid. A woman comes in with a complaint about her power, and is almost killed when Abraxas and two local cops intervene. Secundus holds the woman hostage and steals one of the locals' guns, shooting at a motorcyclist to knock him off his bike so Secundus can steal it.
Secundus finds the house of his son and baby mama, but a different mother and child are there. Secundus does his test on the kid, with the only thing stopping the kid's death being Abraxas rushing in to save the day. Secundus stabs Abraxas with a broken lamp, but decides to let him live long enough to watch everything he loves be destroyed.
Secundus learns of humans' protectiveness of their offspring, and seeks to find the mother. He steals a car to do so, and backs over its owner in the process. He then goes to a strip club and tries to take a dancer, but three bouncers try and stop him. He kills them and runs away.
Secundus finds an elementary school and goes in to find the boy. He forces one teacher to hand Tommy over, threatening to kill the class one by one if he doesn't comply. For context, Tommy isn't in the school. This leads to a final confrontation between Secundus and our heroes, where Secundus tries to psychologically torment Tommy into unlocking the Equation, and Abraxas ends up killing his nemesis via the Equation test..
Heinousness?
Big Bad, sets it.
Mitigating factors?
Nope. He's just a power-hungry Straw Nihilist.
Verdict?
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
edited 9th Nov '16 5:27:13 PM by MiraiYuji