During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
(she/her)
Quotes crowner made and hooked as requested.
Macron's notes
The Draftsman of Doom
Thanks, Mac.
How long should we run this?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Excellent.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 11th 2022 at 8:34:03 AM
Goku Black
Three days is the norm. So why not?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
So, rewatching fear the walking dead, Theodore Maddox might need to get cut from CM. Here is my main reason:
As shown via various scenes, Maddox felt remorse killing his mother. One example is during his flashback in prison, he shown having various clipping of his murders around his cell, all of which he shows little concern for. However, when he turns and sees a photo of his mother, he instantly has a sad look and turns away from the photo, silent. After the zombie outbreak and Maddox gets freed from prison, he only takes the photo of his mother (and his books) and leaves with them, not taking anything else.
And then when having a conversation with Alicia, he says she reminds him of his mother, and when Alicia asks if she thought he was Insane, Teddy's calm and sophisticated attitude breaks and he looks and sounds genuinely hurt when he explains about what happened to his mother, even sounding like he's near tears. While he does eventually continue talking about his plan, it is clear Alicia's words and question manages to cut Teddy deep.
All of this points to this:
While Theodore murdered his mother, it is clear Teddy feels remorse for murdering her, and kept her photo (presumably until his death).
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
The Draftsman of Doom
I'll let ~Tyk 5919 handle this one.
Here's a quote from Volo, from Pokemon Legends Arceus, which I don't know if it's been discussed yet.
"Ever since I became convinced that Arceus really does exist, there has been one question that consumed my thoughts... How can I meet such a being myself? It was in an attempt to answer this question that I originally sought out Giratina and had it tear open that rift in space and time... After all Giratina wished to stand against Arceus. But that didn't do the trick... So then I had you gather the fragments of the all-encompassing deity, just as the murals of the ruins directed. Eighteen plates said to be the fragments of the all-encompassing deity... You hold in your hands seventeen of them. So, you must be wondering: Where is the last one? (reveals the spooky plate in his hand) Why, it's right here! (Volo changes his Gingko Guild Merchant outfit into his Arceus inspired outfit) Now, hand over the plates you gathered! I will be the one to bring them all together! My desire to meet Arceus cannot be contained any longer! I need to know what it is! I MUST know what it is! If I can meet Arceus myself, then I may also be able to subjugate its power... And using that, I will attempt to create a new, better world! Of course, if I create a brand-new world, then this Hisui region that we currently exist in will be undone and returned to nothing. You, everyone you know, and all the Pokémon living here will vanish in an instant, as if you'd never been. If you want to keep this world from disappearing, then face me in battle! Not that you have a choice. Even if you don't wish to battle me, I'm not above using force to take those plates from you."
Should this be added to the quotes or no?
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I brought up in my EP that he killed his mother out of frustration because she questioned him about his disturbed nature. He kept her body buried for months, not feeling remorse or guilt. He outright said he felt he was worried someone would find her body and arrest him. Nothing else. But then when spring came around, wonderful, luscious flowers bloomed from the same patch of the ground where he buried her body. That is why he keeps her photo, as a reminder of his twisted philosophy—a philosophy that if you destroy everything, something new can arise.
The problem with this philosophy is that he doesn't care about anyone else but himself. He can only have the world change the way he wants it under his personal ways. If anyone disagrees? Oh well. They can die.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Leaning a keep on Mad Theo.
Small chance I may change my mind.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Apr 11th 2022 at 8:50:12 AM
IPP Wick Check created.
The Draftsman of Doom
Keep Theo Abstain. Quote is too long.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 11th 2022 at 11:34:36 AM
Professor Gigachad
Eh honestly with that in mind I am kind of unsure if Teddy really counts as those moments Mermaid brought up seem a tad odd to just dismiss as just part of his philosophy the biggest thing I am wondering is why would he he bad sad when talking about her?
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Quote can be shortened. Maybe this?
“So, you must be wondering: Where is the last one? (reveals the spooky plate in his hand) Why, it's right here! (Volo changes his Gingko Guild Merchant outfit into his Arceus inspired outfit) Now, hand over the plates you gathered! I will be the one to bring them all together! My desire to meet Arceus cannot be contained any longer! I need to know what it is! I MUST know what it is! If I can meet Arceus myself, then I may also be able to subjugate its power... And using that, I will attempt to create a new, better world! Of course, if I create a brand-new world, then this Hisui region that we currently exist in will be undone and returned to nothing. You, everyone you know, and all the Pokémon living here will vanish in an instant, as if you'd never been. If you want to keep this world from disappearing, then face me in battle! Not that you have a choice. Even if you don't wish to battle me, I'm not above using force to take those plates from you."
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Apr 11th 2022 at 7:37:01 AM
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Or maybe perhaps even shorter:
"Now, hand over the plates you gathered! I will be the one to bring them all together! My desire to meet Arceus cannot be contained any longer! I need to know what it is! I MUST know what it is! If I can meet Arceus myself, then I may also be able to subjugate its power... And using that, I will attempt to create a new, better world! Of course, if I create a brand-new world, then this Hisui region that we currently exist in will be undone and returned to nothing. You, everyone you know, and all the Pokémon living here will vanish in an instant, as if you'd never been. If you want to keep this world from disappearing, then face me in battle! Not that you have a choice. Even if you don't wish to battle me, I'm not above using force to take those plates from you."
Edited by Binfield94 on Apr 11th 2022 at 7:41:47 AM
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Could we shorten it to this?
"You, everyone you know, and all the Pokémon living here will vanish in an instant, as if you'd never been. If you want to keep this world from disappearing, then face me in battle! Not that you have a choice. Even if you don't wish to battle me, I'm not above using force to take those plates from you."
@Ordeaux: It came off more as frustration. Like when he's talking about his mother and how he killed her, he just sounds more angry and frustrated. Even when he confesses to Alicia that he killed her, it's very nonchalant. Teddy doesn't come off as someone who killed his mother because he had to and he felt genuinely upset about it. He just comes off as someone who panicked and killed his mother when she started questioning his "odd" tendencies and was only worried about getting caught.
Edited by Tyk5919 on Apr 11th 2022 at 10:45:29 AM
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Professor Gigachad
I see well it seems that you both have a different view on the scene, maybe we should give this more discussion, does anyone perhaps have a clip for the scenes so we can make a judgement.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Works for me. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Edited by Binfield94 on Apr 11th 2022 at 11:23:53 AM
Professor Gigachad
Also guys the Fraser quote has just achieved super consensus so seems we will be ending the crowner earlier than expected.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
The Emperor of Evil!
Just finished watching the clip, he doesn't remotely sad about it from what I'm hearing. I say keep him then.
My only real concern with his dialogue is he does say he wants a new world where people "like mother could thrive free". If he really does look sad glancing at a photo of her as well, that's also concerning me.
Edited by 43110 on Apr 11th 2022 at 11:31:49 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Ordeaux: Are you sure the crowner is ready for calling?
Things can change very quickly.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 11th 2022 at 11:37:19 AM
Wild Child
An Image Pickin' Thread has been opened for the pic on Monster.Comic Books.
Edited by Clown-Face on Apr 11th 2022 at 8:42:18 AM
Why so serious?
Yeah, like 43 said...I'd tuned out of TWD a long time ago, but that is seriously concerning for a character for me.
About the furthest I can go is one iffy scene: Get Rich or Die Tryin' seems blatantly confused if Majestic is mocking or trying to reach out to 50's character when he admits he raped his mother and killed her but the whole thing is so bizarrely shot it could go either way and he's never been anything but a self-serving scumbag until that point. If someone says they want a world where people like their mom could live, clearly have deep psychological issues and that's compounded with anything, even just looking sad at a photo I don't personally see myself able to stand by keeping him.
Professor Gigachad
There is a rule that crowners with superconsensus are ended earlier. I already hollered a mod so they can decide what to do.
You know maybe this will be unpopular but looking at the video I am getting a lot of sketchy vibes from Teddy I am actually leaning cut.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Apr 11th 2022 at 8:51:43 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
You’ll just have to read the comic if you want to know more about them - they’re such a minor character they’re not even listed as appearing in the comics they’re in on the DC wiki