During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Didn't he himself make a movie called Paranoia
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Wyatt
Ultimate Moral Compass
Not!Steve Jobs, from one of the funniest “thrillers” ever made.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Mar 27th 2022 at 10:34:04 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Imperfect Disgrace
Wyatt.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Nicholas Wyatt.
Big Boa and Wyatt.
Goku Black
Wyat
to Big Boa and Nicholas Wyatt.
Yes to Nick and Big Boa.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
First EP in a while and it was my first ever collab! Massive thanks @SnokeTrope for helping create this EP.
What is the work?
Kingsman is a British action spy franchise. The title refers to a tailor shop in Savile Row, London that serves as a front for a private international spy agency, dedicated to preserving peace and saving innocent lives without interference from world governments. The first two films follow Gary "Eggsy" Unwin, joining the organisation and going through saving the world. Character I'm looking to discuss is another person who applied for Kingsman but became arguably Eggsy's most despised foe-Charlie Hesketh.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
In the first film Charlie Hesketh is a Kingsman applicant chosen by Kingsman's head Arthur and is shown to be an classist smug bastard looking down onto Eggsy's lower class heritage. Although doing well in the initiations, Charlie ends up failing after a test of loyalty, thinking his life was on the line and told his "interrogator" Kingsman's secrets-disappointing Arthur. Charlie later appears before the film's final act in Valentine's lair where he was invited with his family to avoid the mass genocide Valentine intended on for his population control. Charlie exposes Eggsy to Valentine and in return gets shocked and knocked out by Eggsy. Charlie is then assumed to be killed by the FUCKIN' SPECTACULAR head chip explosion.
In the second film, it's revealed that because of being shocked, it knocked Charlie's chip and only blew up his arm. Charlie then found employment under Poppy Adams and her organisation called the Golden Circle. Charlie reveals himself to be alive to Eggsy in an ambush and engages in a fight in Eggsy's car revealing he has a robotic arm as a replacement. Although the chase ends with Charlie thrown out and his small gang of henchman blown up. Charlie managed to have his robotic arm hack into Eggsy's car, revealing Kingsman's bases, letting Poppy blow up them up with missile strikes, killing all of the field agents, including Eggsy's friend Roxy and his personal friend and dog.(Some are shown to be in public areas as well so there's possible collateral damage there.) With Kingsman seemingly dead, it allows Poppy to kick start her grand plan-a mass hostage situation worth hundreds of millions of lives, something Charlie has no problem with.
To track down the vaccine antidotes to Poppy's drug illness, Eggsy finds Charlie's girlfriend Clara at Glastonbury and seduces her to insert a tracking device inside her. Because of Clara being infected with Poppy's virus, Charlie allows her to come to the facility to get an antidote, allowing the heroes to find the vaccine and take it back. Eggsy then meets Charlie and Clara and remarks about what happened at Glastonbury to them, making Charlie give chase and trying to kill Eggsy and Agent Whisky by hacking into the glass gondola they're in. Although the heroes escape, they have to try and get another vaccine since Agent Whiskey seemingly accidentally broke the one they had. Unfortunately Charlie blows up the facility, killing the scientists and Clara within, remarking a similar line to her as Eggsy did to them.
Charlie is last seen in the climax of the film trying to escape with Poppy's case that holds the means to release the antidote, engaging in a final fight against Eggsy. Although close to killing Eggsy, his robotic arm gets hacked, taking control of him and attaching him to a tree branch. Disarming himself from it, Charlie engages with Eggsy one last time before being subdued. When demanded to give the code for the antidote, Charlie just laughs and says only Poppy has it, causing Eggsy to kill the bastard with a Neck Snap.
Heinous standard?
Its DAMN high, Valentine from the first movie tries to wipe out most of Humanity in a Nasty way, His boss Poppy herself is a wantonly sadistic maniac who has the Kingsman purged and threatens brutal death to Billions if her demands aren't met in addition to some Vicious extra touches, and the guys from the Prequel orchestrate world war 1. Even the President from this movie, who you would expect to just be an Obstructive Douche instead becomes half of a Big Bad Ensemble when he takes advantage of Poppy's plan to try wiping out the Junkies, Whiskey also tries helping with that.
For his Tier though? I think he manages to stand out, while he is The Dragon it's like Crossbones where is displayed as more a glorified thug then a major Second in Command, he is shown to be actively helping out with Poppy's schemes, he hacks the Kingsman servers to sell the whole organization out to be Purged, which allows for Poppy to begin her plans, and the movie Knows this, Eggsy explicitly brings up that this is for all the Kingsman Charlie got killed before finishing him off. And Charlie personally blows up a Building filled with Golden Circle operatives, including his girlfriend, to keep the Heroes from getting the Antidote.
Put in with Minor things, like the Aforementioned Girlfriend killing and Joining Valentine in the first film and trying to screw up Eggsy's attempt to stop his Plan? I think he has enough
One thing Helping him is that we have others in his Tier like Gazelle from the first film, who works for her boss and nastily kills some people like the agent at the opening, he blows that stuff out of the water, doing a hell of a lot more to actually make his boss plans happen.
Freudian Excuse? Mitigating factors?
Zero for FE, he was a Snobby Bully who got rejected for being willing to sell out the Agency, who then throws his Hat in with Genocidal Maniacs because he was Pissy over being rightfully kicked out. He does not give a shit about his Family after they get killed by Eggsy given he never once brings up avenging them or anything.
The sole thing worth talking about here is his girlfriend, admittedly he did seem to legitimately love her. Warning her not to take any Drugs and trying to get her cured when she gets infected. After he finds out she cheated on him? He has her blown up without a care, even giving a mocking ‘What happens in Italy stays in Italy’ before doing it.
He gets along well enough with Poppy, but this is no more mitigating then it is for Poppy herself, it never goes into full Villainous Friendship territory.
Final Verdict?
I think he is good? For his tier, He goes from Jackass Bully to joining and even trying to help a Genocidal Maniac, and then pulls all the things he does in the Sequel. And he literally blows up his sole redeeming quality
Edited by WetFlannels on Mar 28th 2022 at 6:28:07 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
to Charlie, and thanks for letting me collab again
for Wyatt, and Charlie. (tentative)
Hey everyone, I just finished Kirby and the Forgotten Land. Pretty great game. Feel free to PM me for any possible CM candidates.
Saw Golden Circle so I’m okay giving Charlie a . I think he does just enough to stand out
@nwo Yep. Irony abounds. Haha.
My one concern with Charlie is that aside from going out of his way to cure Clara, he does so stealthily and is trying to avoid getting caught doing so since he knows how brutally Poppy punishes insubordination. He's literally putting his ass on the line for her knowing that it could cost him his life if he gets caught. His killing her callously afterward may still be enough to completely subvert or nullify it though, especially for the petty reason that his nemesis used her.
You know what? His making it about his grudge to spite Eggsy again is probably enough for me to say . Good job guys.
@Scraggle You see my last question? It was admittedly easy to miss being as my post was at the bottom of the last page.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 28th 2022 at 10:37:46 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
How much does he do on his own vs. being just a henchman?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
He personally fights Eggsy to get his robotic arm into the car and hack Kingsman and he also blows the drug facility on his own too. Both are in major service to Poppy's agenda, but still make Charlie's role significant enough. He also in the first film tries to blow Eggsy's cover with Valentine in service of Valentine's plan too.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 28th 2022 at 10:50:56 AM
Yes to Charlie.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
@ACW
I think the EP went into detail about that
The First man
The wifi here sucks
Easy yes to Charlie. Future touched on this but the first film makes it pretty clear that everyone in Valentine's bunker is aware of his devastating plan and Charlie trying to keep Eggsy from stopping Valentine is directly in service of that plan, meaning Valentine's plan can be partially layed at his feet. Though even without that he kills a bunch of his own henchmen independent of Poppy's orders.
Edited by papyru30 on Mar 28th 2022 at 12:04:05 PM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Eh, guess I'll give a yes.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts