During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to keeping Henry. With what he does do, he's totally sadistic and personally cruel. He definitely hits the baseline.
The wifi here sucks
Keep Henry, the highway scene is clearly implying that a lot of people were either killed or nearly killed.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
I'm a firm, firm, firm keep to Henry. The dude is a literal child operating under the barest of resources possible, and with that he still murders dogs, causes giant car accidents, and attempts to murder his entire family. That's more than heinous enough for an Enfante Terrible in a grounded setting.
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 12th 2022 at 4:45:22 AM
Goku Black
Also, Space could you maybe tone it down with posts like this.
That came off as antagonistic
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Best Smile
Leshrac.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Razorbeard.
Keep Henry.
Cut Kovar and Sergio.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Seconding this. A cardinal rule is "don't be a dick" and that post is riddled with aggressive Complaining About Shows You Don't Like to the point it's infringing on the actual attempted arguments (why should an Idiot Plot affect a character's chances for qualification to this trope?). If you're going to post to cut a baddie, please do it without bias.
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 12th 2022 at 4:57:58 AM
RIP Toriyama
Keep Henry, and very much thirding mir's statement. There is a way to approach cutting a villain without coming off very pointlessly antagonistic and snarky, Space, and this isn't the first time you've tried to cut character from this or MB while having an attitude that was very much not user-friendly in its wordage or argument presentation. Always be aware of the fact that a cut is absolutely not guaranteed just because you find issues with it, so the attitude of "this character should have never been listed and they are now going bye-bye because I decree it" isn't a great way to present arguments. Work on approaching the cutting of candidates with a bit less passion behind the proclamations and snark, please, for both your sake and the thread's.
Edited by Ravok on Jan 12th 2022 at 4:24:52 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Keep Henry. If we judged everyone based on MCU or Galactic standards, very few would qualify limited resources or not.
Troubling Unchildlike Behavior and Enfant Terrible don't have the ridiculous heinous standard someone from Warhammer 40k would have for example.
Anyone think Quercus Alba feeling a genuine understanding of having a bad back is Pet the Dog? Otherwise we might need to remove that as it's on his character page.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I meant not every universe needs to be judged by the most heinous of standards ever. If Henry is the most heinous character in the film, which from what I saw, he most certainly IS, he keeps. This isn't a bad fanfiction where it's just grimdark for the sake of it, it's a legitimate film and while it isn't good, you guys know how many "bad film" candidates we have.
Edited by Klavice on Jan 12th 2022 at 4:56:54 AM
Goku Black
What are you talking about?
We weren't talking about the MCU and war hammer unless I missed something
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Henry (Fun Fact: I arrived here late & thought we were talking about the other Henry, & there’s no way in hell that one is going.)
I would hope not.
Please check my edited post, I explained myself in more detail.
Professor Gigachad
Speaking of that one for some reason there are people that give him Draco in Leather Pants treatment, don't ask why I have no clue.
Yes, earnestly Space the whole "Bye, off the list!" you end your posts with is getting tiresome. You literally called us hypocrites on the MB thread for listing the Cat in the Hat and you constantly act like an opinion post on why someone ought be removed is objective as though your stance holds prevalence above all others. I have no issue with you wanting to debate candidates but you snipe at people's work, you rudely dismiss points that don't align with your beliefs and as Scraggle pointed out "Don't be a dick" is 100% a rule here. I will be hollering hostile posts from you and I encourage others to do the same, keep it civil.
The Draftsman of Doom
I concur that we must deny Henry Evans any possibility of parole or bail whatsoever. His sentence in the sub-pages must continue.
Condolences regarding your pet, Lighty. I remember when a dog stayed at my parents' house and died shortly thereafter of cancer. We still miss her.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 12th 2022 at 9:00:35 AM
Feels good, don't it?
to the Princess Ezel rewrite and Leshrac. Keep Henry Evans.
to the General Morando quote and Admiral Razorbeard. Cut Sergio and General Konstantin Kovar.
@nwotyzal and @MasterN: Good luck with starting a new semester/quarter of university.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Thanks. It’s off to a decent start.
Showtime!
Ordeaux, people will Dilp any villain. I've run into so many Akio apologists I was genuinely surprised we had him listed at first
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Emperor Grumm from Power Rangers SPD doesn't qualify as complete monster because he promised the A-Squad that they would rule Earth alongside him and he had every intent of keeping that promise too.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Lesh & I'm still keeping my yes for Razordbeard, albeit tentatively now.
I'll be off this thread for a few days because I have the end of semester 1 at uni to finish . I'll have some proposals that I think are at least worth bringing up when I come back.
Also could anyone confirm if I can reserve Season 3 for The Boys please?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Lies and Violence!
Do we know he intended to keep that promise? And even if he did, rewarding useful minions isn't a redeeming quality, it's just keeping useful minions happy and loyal.
Leshrac.
Sorry about your pet Lighty. I lost my dog of 15 years about three years ago so I know what it’s like
But for Alba he expressed sympathy when another character has a bad back
Edited by LordYAM on Jan 12th 2022 at 9:24:15 AM
Want to thank everything for their support, btw.
So, a few matters...
First, I've spoken with Ravok and after seeing Jonah Hex from 2010, I feel Quentin Turnbull needs to go. While it's true the film is shoddily written and Turnbull never mentions his son Jeb again or responds to Jonah taunting him about it? The opening scene has Quentin clearly saying in no uncertain terms Jonah killed his only boy and he would make him pay by burning Jonah's family alive. Specifically so Jonah would also know the pain of "losing everyone you love." Now, BURKE is absolutely fine as a keeper, but I think Quentin's care for his son is too well defined by that scene and he should be cut.
Let me stress Burke is absolutely fine. The guy is a strutting, gleeful sadist out to wipe out everything for pure giggles.
Now...from Gundam Wing...AKA Boy Band Gundam, from Endless Waltz...Set a year after the series ends, I give you the grand mastermind, Dekim Barton.
Who is Dekim Barton?
Originally an aide of Colony leader Heero Yuy, Dekim later killed Heero's assassin Odin Lowe to seal his political futures. Thirsting for power and the dominion of the space colonies, Dekim went underground and commissioned the creations of the Gundams, founding "Operation Meteor." The plan was to drop a fucking colony on earth and have the Gundams invade, razing earth into surrender. The Scientists who designed the Gundams, however, disagreed and hid the Gundams, entrusting them to pilots...except for Trowa, Dekim's son, who intended on going ahead with the attack. One scientist killed Trowa to protect his family on earth and a mysterious, nameless Engineer took the Gundam and Trowa's name.
Dekim also had a daughter named Leah who ostensibly had an affair with the head of earth's military, Treize Khushrenada, and produced a child named Marimeia. Dekim spent years grooming and brainwashing the girl into a military leader and figurehead. Utilizing the power of Oz and the Barton name, Dekim raised a major force to invade Earth and complete a colony drop. Kidnapping Relena Peacecraft, the love interest of protagonist Heero Yuy (not the dead one, the son of the assassin who killed him who took the name)...Dekim attempted to carry out the true Operation Meteor
Dekim is left to try to perform his invasion with the Gundam forces back in action and taking Dekim down. Dekim is defeated by the resistance as Relena calls upon earth to resist Dekim and embrace peace...Dekim tries to shoot her, but Marimeia takes the shot for her.
Dekim? "I can always find another Marimeia! I made her, after all!" ...when a random soldier, realizing how far they've strayed from the ideals of Treize, shoots Dekim in the head. Dekim dies like his son: shot by a random, anonymous extra we have never seen before
Mitigating issues?
So...Wing is its own continuity. If Tsubarov keeps as listed? Dekim tries to put into a plan to kill most of earth's population and he does so twice. Oh, yeah, he brainwashes his granddaughter into being a military figurehead and has no remorse over literally shooting her almost fatally.
I did check the prequel manga and...there is literally zero indication Dekim cares about Heero. He never once expresses admiration or care for the man and considers pacifism to be idiotic. He lures in Odin to execute him for the murder, but this is straight up revenge for his own ego and to shore up his power.
Throughout the entire movie of Endless Waltz, Dekim is a cruel tyrant who cares nothing for his children, his soldiers or anyone but himself. Period.
Conclusion?
And a keeper, I think. Long overdue.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 12th 2022 at 9:46:56 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
I’m actually reserving discussion for The Boys, as I’ve done so for the past two seasons.
Dekim
Cut Turnball
Edited by therealjackieboy on Jan 12th 2022 at 9:50:47 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Professor Gigachad
Considering we just cut Sergio for similar shotty writing when it comes to a loved one I would be willing to cut Quentin as well, if only to remain consistent.
Dekim
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 12th 2022 at 9:56:36 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
I'm personally a keep for Henry, he sounds more then bad enough for the baseline, and with stuff like us not getting confirmation that the car crashes injured or killed anyone, it seems to be a fairly adult flick and the scene is portrayed In full horror( https://youtu.be/o2J59hT1Vto(
The First man