During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Dr. Hugo Greif.
I'll also change to ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Baron Alliser if his mother thing is genuine.
to Allicer
About Winston Yu, I haven't read the books but I just read his page on the wiki and it says that after he gets a medal from the Queen for his Army services, his mother dies from shock and gratitude. After this, Winston scatters her ashes in the Buckingham Palace after bribing a guard.
This is still not enough evidence that he loves her but the fact that he goes through all the trouble of bribing a guard and scattering his mother's ashes in the Palace might suggest that he actually loves her.
So, @Tyk, I think it would be a good idea to check this.
Edited by WatTambor on Apr 7th 2021 at 4:04:18 AM
@Tyk Please remind me of why the original Herod (not Darius as in the film) didn't count.
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I'm on it, guys; I'm on it. Slow down. 
Herod prolly does count and I'm gonna do an EP on him later tonight. I'm currently skimming through Snakehead to verify the Winston Yu details. Miraculous said he'll handle Julia's rewrite and look at a couple other things.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Goku Black
Herod is probably the only other guy to count.
Damien Cray is way more then bad enough with his whole nuke most of Asia plan but I remember him being nuts to an extreme degree.
Actually hold on on book counterpart of Julius Grief. Apparently he came back in the 2020 Novel and a quick check on wikia seems to maybe show he does meet standard now after all.
Edited by miraculous on Apr 7th 2021 at 4:25:52 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
...Are you serious? Anthony Horowitz straight-up retconned everything after Scorpia Rising didn't he? They gonna bring back Yassen too?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
There's also that too, yush.
Edited by Tyk5919 on Apr 7th 2021 at 7:35:11 AM
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
The Emperor of Evil!
Isn't Cray also an Anti-Villain and a Well-Intentioned Extremist? At least that's what I got from his character page on Alex Rider.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Apr 7th 2021 at 7:35:31 AM
Goku Black
Yep. Cray is nuts. He seems to actually think killing everyone across the drug trade region will help the world. Like genuinely for real...
Edited by miraculous on Apr 7th 2021 at 4:36:48 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
These books sound wild.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Dr. Hugo Greif
Marmoo
Alliser
Edited by KazuyaProta on Apr 7th 2021 at 6:38:51 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
It's got the espionage of 007 and the over-the-top villains of 24. So yush. Wonderful teen/young adult series. ![[awesome]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/minis/award_star_gold_3.png "[awesome]"){kind=small}
Edited by Tyk5919 on Apr 7th 2021 at 7:37:47 AM
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
The Draftsman of Doom
Considering I refrained from effortposting a previous candidate because there was no indication whatsoever—not even a throwaway line—that my candidate was going to his brother's funeral for selfish reasons, it's gonna take an explicit confirmation from Yu's own mouth, or better yet, actions which confirm that he has long since stopped caring about his mother or never did care, for me to vote for anything but a tentative cut.
I'm sorry, but that is a lot of effort to go to for someone you supposedly don't care about, and unless he is doing it to keep up appearances or the detail is false (wikis are not reliable info sources compared to actual books), my tentative cut vote stands.
In other news, I think I will try to take some space from the fora for two weeks or so, except for April 13th.
Feels good, don't it?
Goku Black
Like hell we get a new bad guy attempt to blow someplace/nuke/plague / tsunami something every book. That's something ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Professor Gigachad
Jesus the heinous standard sounds nuts no wonder someone like book Grief can't count despite how horrible he is.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Goku Black
Yoh something seems to be going on with the trope pantheons and here
Professor Gigachad
Trope Pantheons are basically Just for Fun stuff so I don't really see it as an issue.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Woagh
As someone who posts there, apparently its fine if they're approved candidates, but adding it to unnaproved characters is still a no-no.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Abstain on Allicer for now, unless we get concrete evidence of the freudian excuse either counting or not counting.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
On the Alliser issue: The creator of the rom hack, Mycahel did respond to whether Alliser cared about his mother or not.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Bleeeeeeeehhhhh...
We gotta cut Winston Yu. His love for his mother does seem genuine. He goes on and on about how his mother did everything for him, including becoming an assassin and outright killing people just to pay for his schooling and college funds, and nothing indicates he didn't love her. He even states he bribed a gardener to have her ashes scattered in Buckingham Palace around the roses because he knew she would've liked that.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Goku Black
Cut Winston
Julia and Nizam are more clear cut stays anyway.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Draftsman of Doom
Goku Black
On the plus side. Herod can replace him pretty easily.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I actually have the first nine Alex Rider books if anyone wants me to check out some of these details.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.