During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I acknowledged it, Clown.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Oh. Very sorry must have missed it. I'll go back and look for that
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Lizzid people!
I'm inclined to probably put a "keep" for Abigail due to that information.
Revoking what I said on Abigail given erazor's latest points.
Edited by AustinDR on Jan 13th 2019 at 5:59:27 AM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Oh and also. "Keep" for good old Abigail at least.
Edited by Kylotrope on Jan 13th 2019 at 5:23:06 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Gentle Laborer
Guess i'll wait for Erazor to bring us more information before i cast any votes.
Jacques was willing to poison his infant daughter to death. That, in addition to his other crimes, pushes him as enough for me at the moment.
Cut Admah though.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jan 13th 2019 at 8:28:59 AM
Lizzid people!
Yeah...that sounds horrible, even for this setting.
Alright. Well, I have to head out for now, so I guess I'll leave this to you. If you have any specific questions for me, just hold off on them and PM me about it. I'll respond whenever I get some time.
The Unknown Unknown
Pyrrah's Past and Field Trip out of the way.
Scorch is a keep. Setting Grimm loose upon a whole city and trying to destroy all of Beacon alone means he's the most heinous villain of the series.
So far. This is subject to change.
Edited by erazor0707 on Jan 13th 2019 at 5:34:31 AM
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Ruby and Nora sounds like a pretty dark world. What's the highest number of Complete Monsters any work (not counting those with Alternate Universes, like Kamen Rider) has had?
Mmm... for a singular work? Criminal Minds. For a series? Star Wars.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Law & Order: SVU is getting up there. I mean damn.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Since one of the requirements for Complete Monster is to stand out, I'm surprised those franchises have so many examples. From what I know, the most recent keeper for Criminal Minds is Carl Buford. Would it still be possible for anyone else to qualify, or has the heinous standard been squeezed dry?
Those works stand out because of their longevity and how much the setting has grown. It's more plausible for a soon to be fifteen-season series that's been running for 370+ episodes since 2005 with multitudes of villains to have loads of keepers. Not so much with a fanfic series that collectively is only around the length of the average novel.
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 13th 2019 at 6:44:16 AM
Doesn't the Star Wars monster page have a few alternative universes in it though? I remember that a comic version of Darth Vader's listed when his canon counterpart is absolutely not this trope.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jan 13th 2019 at 8:44:41 AM
To be fair? Over two thirds of that page is from the EU. It's not like KR where every single installment is a new universe.
....whereas in Power Rangers, the only new universe is RPM.
The Unknown Unknown
Vytal Tournament.
Cut Abigail. Neo and Skull are doing far worse even with Cinder/Salem's backing. Resource clause ain't saving her.
Skull regularly has his men killed in the crossfire on missions (which Cinder lampshades) to get more money for himself.
Neo? Yet another Serial Killer. Abigail had a single spree killing of 90+. Neo? More than one killing. Even though the number is smaller? It's peppered with grotesque stuff such as flaying and stitching body parts to other people.
Starting to see where the high heinousness standard is kicking in. This is clearly a Darker and Edgier retelling of RWBY. With more gay/lesbian people. And Oobleck with a habit of saying "bitches."
Edited by erazor0707 on Jan 13th 2019 at 5:53:29 AM
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Ruby and Nora has only five (soon to be four) examples.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yep, okay. Throw Abigail out.
Gentle Laborer
There have been signs of a Shared Universe within the "Heisei Phase 2" era of KR tho. Unlike most examples of this trope, this aspect is almost movie-exclusive, as the shows themselves completely ignore this... KR is fucking weird.
And cut Abigail.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jan 13th 2019 at 12:02:02 PM
The Unknown Unknown
Recovery.
Now, Scorch is a cut. Cinder's group just replicated his one claim to heinousness except did it worse. Just like canon. Not to mention, throwing away your minions to be killed or whatever is a recurring thing now. That just leaves him to be a politically incorrect Hate Sink, and you have Lyre (or Lyra, I forgot) for that as well.
Edited by erazor0707 on Jan 13th 2019 at 6:02:39 AM
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Make that two or three.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Ehhh...The Fantastic Racism as well as the political incorrect thing still makes one stand out for me. If only for motivation.
Things are really about to get Fun around here