Edit banned/Suspended - would like to edit again.

~shawn_allen, that's not correct. Berrenta described the proper format here:

Give it another try.

~StellaMeredith, I have to disagree with you on that one. We do not pull people in to discuss unless their editing is significantly disruptive or problematic to the wiki. There are a few things I'd like to go over:

• Rewriting trope descriptions. You did this on both Hartman Hips and All Girls Like Ponies. This wiki works by consensus, and changing a trope description is pretty significant. There are committed forum threads to improve trope descriptions. Even with that in mind, I don't think there were issues to correct in said pages. However, at least starting in the forum thread would have been the correct move, instead of just doing it on your own without any prior conversation.
• Edit-warring. When the issue of changing the trope description was brought to the mods' attention, we reverted it on both Hartman Hips and All Girls Like Ponies. However, you re-edited Hartman Hips back to how you had changed it, which made it an Edit War. As stated on the linked page, adding back a deleted example without any sort of discussion or agreement is very much against the rules. And now that I am re-checking your edit history, you warred on YMMV.Jack David Hopkins as well.
• On Characters.A Bugs Life you changed an example from one trope to another, as well as deleted an example. You should always be providing edit reasons, so that other tropers can know why you took an action. In the case of deleting, this is extra important because otherwise it looks arbitrary.
  • Secondary, on that page when you changed a trope from being Everythings Better With Princesses to The Woman Wearing The Queenly Mask, and left it where it was, instead of re-alphabetizing. Tropes are put in alphabetical order.
• Another case of needing edit reasons is your actions on Accidental Aesop, where you outright deleted an example and cut down on another example. In reviewing those examples, I don't see a cause for either so, again, this looks incredibly arbitrary.

All in all, it's a pattern of editing that warranted some early intervention.

Edited by nombretomado on Sep 1st 2019 at 12:43:09 PM

~Dinogal95, that's about right. While it's understandable for new tropers to take a little bit to get the swing of things, the series of pages you immediately created were very poorly formatted and had very little, if any, relevant content. For example, the entire page of Recap.ER was:

If you haven't already, take a look at existing Recap and Character pages, compare to the pages you made, and then come back here. We'll go from there, depending on your response.

~Dinogal95, before there's any release, I want to point you towards a couple more pages:

• How to Create a Work's Page. This is a general walkthrough of making one of our most common pages, a work page.
• Text-Formatting Rules. This covers all the mark-up that make TVT pages look the way they do.
• Program Entry Template. This is a template for a work page.
• Character Sheet Template. This is a template for a character sheet.

Lastly, I really don't think you should just jump straight back into editing or creating live pages. Instead, you can play around in your own Sandbox to make sure you have the page you'd like to create more fleshed out. You can use the one at Sandbox.Dinogal95, click "Edit Page" and go from there. There is also a public one at Wiki Sandbox.

I'm a little leery letting you go straight off (since we can't limit which pages you edit), given the scope of pages I've given you to check out, to be honest, but there's no way to have you draft a whole page in-thread.

I'll let you be your own check. Do you have any questions? If I release your hold, and you go back to editing how you were, you'll probably end up right back here, so now is a good time to ask.

~shawn_allen, that took a bit longer than I would have liked, but that's correct. You've had a lot of notifiers sent about this, so take extra care in making your edits moving forward and maybe put Example Indentation in your bookmarks. We don't want to see you back here, alright? Thanks for coming in.

~Dinogal95, I hate to add things on after the suspension is issued, but your grammar here is worrying me. We have a dedicated thread for tropers to get grammatical/spelling assistance for their writing.

When you're editing the wiki, you have to keep in mind the other editors. If your edits create more work for others to clean up - whether that's because the example is misuse, or because it has bad grammar - then that's a problem.

Please humor me. Rewrite this to have better grammar:

~Dinogal95, unfortunately, that's unacceptably poor grammar. We could not permit that level of writing in the wiki as-is.

Instead of your wiki suspension being released, please use the Get Help with English thread moving forward. Post any edits you'd like to make there, and any volunteering troper will provide a correction and, if requested, may add your example to the wiki. Your suspension will not be released until you have shown sufficient improvement in that thread (i.e. you are given little to no corrections).

Edited by nombretomado on Sep 2nd 2019 at 5:10:47 AM

~MsCC93, this isn't about that. Rather, in a review of your edits to YMMV.Pokemon Anime, it seems like quite a few of them are bloating, adding unnecessary redundancies to otherwise good examples and just inflating the word count without contributing to the quality of the example itself. They come across as fairly "rambly", instead of following the guidelines in How to Write an Example, particularly the sections about conveying information clearly, keeping it brief, staying on-topic, and avoiding Word Cruft. (In the cases where you are writing up a new example, your edits follow the same pattern.)

We also noticed that in a few cases, it seems you are adding examples that don't have much basis other than your opinion. Of course, YMMV is YMMV, but if you're trying to make a case for an example being widespread, you should be providing specific sources.

~MsCC93, if you feel that would be best, then go for it. We rely a lot on tropers to know their own limits, including subjects that they are too close to.

That being said, though, I think we should go over what qualifies as example bloat, so you can avoid it in the future regardless of the page you are working on. Here is an edit you recently made. I've bolded the areas that aren't adding anything to the example, except to increase the word count:

• Before Gary's Heel–Face Turn when he was still a jerkass, fans tended to take his side over Ash during the Kanto/Johto arc of the show by justifying his jerkass behavior towards the latter. This is due to the fact that Gary was always one step ahead of Ash. This is also because he was a well skilled trainer that earned 10 badges while Ash didn't earn 4 of the 8 badges that he had correctly. While Ash had his flaws and was Not So Different, fans are ignoring the fact that Gary was much more arrogant and rude than Ash ever was in the series and that Gary was knocked out of the Kanto league earlier than Ash did.

Your sentences are also rather long and drawn-out, which makes it challenging to read. Here's an example of how to write that example more cleanly:

• Before Gary's Heel–Face Turn, fans would justify his Jerkass behavior towards Ash during the Kanto/Johto arc, citing that he was a well-skilled trainer who earned his 10 badges, while Ash only earned 4 of his 8 badges correctly. While Ash had his flaws, Gary was much more arrogant and rude than he ever was, and Ash was proven to be a more skilled trainer when Gary was knocked out of the Kanto League earlier.

Do you see the difference? I'm including the most important information, and trimming up the sentences to highlight that.

~18TillIDie, it seems you were suspended for doing a lot of first-person writing across the wiki. We also noticed some political bias in your edits. Do either of those editing habits sound familiar to you?

Edited by nombretomado on Sep 3rd 2019 at 6:26:25 AM

~TheDoodAbides, while our Funny (and other Moments subpages) are a bit more casual than the main wiki, we apply example indentation across the board.

The purpose of example indentation is to group examples together. I think a formatting for the Funny subpage would be a single-bullet line essentially boils down to "The antics of Brillo" and the funny examples themselves are each on their own second-level bullet. (Or, just tweak the examples so they can stand alone as single-bullets).

However, in looking at your rewrite, it feels like you're trying to use the single-bullet line as both a definition and an example on its own (i.e. are Florence's stress, "an ornery creature", and its name trying to be examples of Funny on their own?)

Let's look at something from the main wiki, which may be clearer.

• Adult Fear: The film's entire concept is built around this, especially for Americans whom the idea of being invaded by a foreign power seems distant. Summary executions of family members, neighbors turning into The Quisling for the occupation forces, being forced into fighting against an overwhelmingly powerful hostile military by hiding out in the woods, hunted like animals.
  • The thought of your child (or children) becoming partisans against a trained, professional military force is terrifying all on it's own.

In this case, the definition/trope should be on the single-bullet line, and each example demonstrating the Adult Fear should be on its own second-level bullet.

• Adult Fear:
  • The film's entire concept is built around this, especially for Americans whom the idea of being invaded by a foreign power seems distant. Summary executions of family members, neighbors turning into The Quisling for the occupation forces, being forced into fighting against an overwhelmingly powerful hostile military by hiding out in the woods, hunted like animals.
  • The thought of your child (or children) becoming partisans against a trained, professional military force is terrifying all on its own.

Now, let's look at something else from the Funny subpage that violates example indentation:

• The N.U.S. is confronted with a Citadel City that has never been taken by Protestants or Catholics, fortified and staffed with hardy militia. The Grantville solution to a problem that couldn't be solved by Gustavus Adolphus? The army eats up the entire budget of the public works department to build a modern highway going around it.
  • The highway is so attractive to locals that all traffic stops going into the city. The General launches a sortie out the gates after its completion to try and force a battle. Grantville repels him, and he finds the gates locked behind. And all the women in the town dump the boiling water from their laundry on his soldiers.

The single-bullet line is a funny example on its own, and then the second-level bullet is trying to expand on it, while also being its own example.

What would probably be a better rewrite would be something like:

• The battle of the Citadel City:
  • The N.U.S is confronted with a city that has never been taken by Protestants or Catholics, fortified and staffed with hardy militia. Even though Gustavus Adolphus himself couldn't solve the problem, the army solves the issue by eating up the entire budget of the public works department and builds a modern highway around it.
  • The highway itself is so attractive to locals that all traffic stops going into the city, forcing the General of the city to into a sortie after its construction is completed. Grantville repels him, and when he attempts to flee, he finds the gates locked behind him, and the women of the town dump boiling water from their laundry onto his soldiers.

Or, you could simply have them as separate single-bullets.

• The N.U.S. is confronted with a Citadel City that has never been taken by Protestants or Catholics, fortified and staffed with hardy militia. The Grantville solution to a problem that couldn't be solved by Gustavus Adolphus? The army eats up the entire budget of the public works department to build a modern highway going around it.
• The highway built around {City} is so attractive to locals that all traffic stops going into the city. The General launches a sortie out the gates after its completion to try and force a battle. Grantville repels him, and he finds the gates locked behind. And all the women in the town dump the boiling water from their laundry on his soldiers.

~MsCC93, I'd actually like you to take a run at rewriting an example in-thread, before I release you. Example bloat is one of the hardest habits to break, so let's take this opportunity to practice.

• Draco in Leather Pants: Georgia is more of a downplayed version since she's only a rival who engages in petty squabbles with Iris (and she admittedly does get better later in the series). Fans tend to take Georgia's side over Iris and tend to defend her jerkass behavior towards Iris. This is because they see Iris as not so different from Georgia. This is ignoring the fact that unlike Georgia, Iris is a Jerk with a Heart of Gold that practices good sportsmanship and doesn’t whine and blame others for her losses. Georgia, on the other hand, tends to act more immature and practices poor sportsmanship. Georgia is also a Sore Loser who loves to take the blame off of herself when battles don't go her way (except for that one time when she actually had a point that Dragonite winning and not Iris).

Rewrite it, trimming it down similarly to how I've demonstrated.