Scope of laconics

I don't see what you're getting at with me hyperfixating on that phrase; I was responding to something like it and the conversation just changed somewhat there. EDIT: Also, War Jay 77 doesn’t go by they/them pronouns.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Mar 2nd 2023 at 2:34:17 AM

I've sort of been stalking this thread to see where it goes and just wanted to throw out another example of bad laconics leading to misuse: the TRS for Fatal Attraction (Now Criminally Attractive). I actually initially took the laconic to the laconic improvement thread but there was so much misuse the trope was sent to TRS instead.

FWIW i'm also of the mind that laconics should be limited to certain namespaces. Administrivia and Recap have to go, and trope and work definitely stay IMO, but jury's still out on others like UN.

Random, I'm not sure what your goal here is as you have persistently derailed the thread by dismissing other people's concern as trivial, then demanding that they explain things to your satisfaction as if you are the sole arbiter of what counts as "misuse". Even when people are trying to get consensus on a crowner, you carry on your crusade. Someone posts saying Useful Notes should go "if there is a problem", and instead of reading the if, you immediately demand they provide proof, of a hypothetical.

Multiple people have given examples of how trope laconics cause harm, and you still want to split hairs on what you really meant.

I really don't see what you're getting at. I never said anyone's concerns were trivial, nor was my attempt to ask for explanations done for my satisfaction. And I was just responding to what people were saying, which is allowed. As for the crowner thing, I was just responding to the non-crowner part of what someone said that was referencing something I stated because the user didn't consider reporting pages.

To be fair, you're right on something that you alluded to; what was suggested for the crowner seems to need more consensus. EDIT: And it's more important than arguing with me.

I actually find what was suggested thus far as options to be good. That said, since some people were considering letting only some Useful Notes have Laconics instead of all, I'd also add "Some Useful Notes Pages" or something kinda like that. EDIT: If anyone feels they have any better suggestions, I'd actually like to hear them too.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Dec 24th 2022 at 11:23:04 AM

Speaking of that, the cronwer is fine, but let me insert a few things for full cover.

e: cut disambigs

Edited by Amonimus on Dec 22nd 2022 at 4:53:59 PM

Should we hold off on the crowner until after the holidays? Many of us are traveling right now.

I mean for something this big I'll hazard a guess that it's going to run for at least the minimum three days if not longer (not a mod, so can't say definitively)

Regardless though, this is just getting the options in order for the future crowner whenever it'd run since the options should also be agreed upon to at least make sure we aren't missing anything.

I'm fine with those options, I didn't include pages that weren't discussed in the thread already (Disambigs, Characters, Just For Fun) in my drafts because I had no idea those even had laconics tbh. Nice save.

Edited by amathieu13 on Dec 22nd 2022 at 7:41:20 AM

When even a small change is a minimum of three days, this'll be at least a week. We haven't really been responding due to having other concerns, but I do like the newest crowner list.

(Edit for your edit) It doesn't hurt to simply be proactive and identify all of the major namespaces. We'd rather no-one went Ain't No Rule to loophole their way into problems.

Edited by crazysamaritan on Dec 22nd 2022 at 12:41:39 PM

Oh yeah, that was not me saying those additions were bad and I edited the previous post to better reflect that

We can still flesh out the crowner beforehand so it doesn't have to be right now, and if it happens to be posted we can always go beyond a week if the vote count is low.

Why are disambigs on the table? Shouldn't those not be linked to, unless by redirect?

Because I've forgot an earlier policy that disambigs can't have subpages period and there wouldn't be a problem with them. I'll remove it.

I agree that we should wait for the holidays to end before the crowner starts, now that I think of it.

I noticed a few other creator laconics being cut.

It should be safe to start the crowner now.

Crowner's hooked.

Posting this comment to make public that I voted against banning Work and Trope laconics, as well in favor of banning Administrivia, Characters and Useful Notes laconics. I didn't upvote or downvote any of the other options.

I admit I'm a bit worried about work laconics getting so many upvoted (meaning favoring a ban). I find them far less problematic than trope laconics (which I still support). I do wonder: If an option gets a negative net amount in the end, but not enough for an 1:2 ratio, does it still mean the Laconics represented by it will be salvaged from being banned? Because I'm assuming that only those getting a positive net plus a 2:1 ratio will get banned; is this assumption correct? Or will the verdict be decided by reaching a simple majority?

Posting to make public our votes:

• Yes to a laconic ban on characters, creators, and indices
• No to a laconic ban on tropes, works, JFF, UN (while most pages wouldn't benefit, we do feel there are a few exceptions), and Administrivia (same reasoning as UN)
• Null vote on Recap (we just have no strong feelings on this one)

Voted to ban everything but Tropes and Useful notes, which I wanted to keep, and Creators, because I genuinely have no idea

Voting to ban Administrivia (easiest decision really), Recap (only Trivia/YMMV), Characters (wait, wait, wait. Laconics for that has been a thing?), indices (kinda useless here), Just For Fun (do they even warrant a subpage?), Creator/ and Useful Notes (I thought about just keeping them for video game platforms or anything else directly related to media, but ultimately changed my mind). Supporting keeping tropes and works. There's no harm and I'm not opposed to tropers using creative referrals to respective main pages.

Edited by GrafVonTirol on Jan 5th 2023 at 12:04:21 PM

Voting to ban all except works and trope pages.

Should we do an advert on ATT to get more eyeballs on this?

I'm actually susrprized it's not in ATT, it's a site-wide change and crowners are normally announced.

Edited by Amonimus on Jan 6th 2023 at 2:50:21 PM

Yeah, advertising on ATT for wiki talk crowners is always a good idea

Done so.

Right after announcing, the rating for JFF and UN quickly dropped, interesting.