Unclear Description: Think Twins

Note: This thread was originally proposed by ~amathieu13, who gave permission for others to make the thread.

Trope has been around since 2009, 42 wicks so it's technically considered standing. Wick Check shows however there's both a ZCE issue, which lowers the number of valid off-page wicks to 24 (which is the cut-off between Standing and Starved) and a misuse problem due to the somewhat unclear definition, which reads:

Twins are often treated as the "thinking engine" who come up with plans (be those devious or truly smart) because, well, there are two of them, and they are on the same wavelength (more so than just regular friends) so they can come up with things among the two of them more effectively than other two characters, which would involve a lot more explaining yourself and arguing.

This seems to suggest one of two ideas:

• On a team, twins tend to be The Smart Guy = twins that are members of a group that are depicted as being the smart ones
• Twins work well together and better than non-twin pairings　= twins, whether they are part of a larger group or not, are shown as working more efficiently/productively together than when other people work together/when they are working solo

However, the wick check reveals the issue: the most prevalent use of the trope on the site is just "Twins are shown to be smart" regardless of whether or not they are part of a larger team. This is a third of all examples of the trope (this includes on-page examples).

• Sometimes, the examples imply that the twins aren't just smart, but are smarter than those around them with the implication being that it's solely because they are twins. This idea is kind of connected to the second definition listed above, but to be clear, working well together =/= being viewed as smart. Twins that are depicted separately as geniuses but who never work together in-universe would fit this misuse, but not the definition above
• Several examples are not making a comparative statement at all and are just stating that the twins are intelligent, which relates more to the first meaning discussed above, but rarely were the twins part of a group in the examples. So these examples still don't fully fit 1 of the 2 possible definitions.

In sum, few examples actually fit the definition outlined regardless of which version you go with.

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What to do? Obviously, rewrite the trope definition to more clearly describe what the trope is, but which version of the trope should we go with?

1. rewrite it to follow one of the original meanings more closely
2. rewrite it to be more like the use
3. split the difference in definitions for a new trope, defined as "Twins are depicted as being smarter, more efficient, and/or productive when working together than when compared to non-twin people/pairings or when they are working alone". Superior Twin Teamwork?

I'm more in favor of suggestion three as I think that's the most tropeworthy version of this concept and what the initial trope was going for. I'd also be ok with drafting the idea. (semi-related, but from just the name, Tag Team Twins seems like it's covering the proposed trope, but it's not. that's for when a wrestling duo is composed of twins.)

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Anyway, I'm in favor of option 3, but I think we should Yard that due to how few existing examples we already have of that.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

If nobody is willing to TLP this, yard (Superior)Twin Teamwork or something like that.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

I said in the final paragraph that if Option 3 is voted for, I'll make the draft for the TLP myself so we wouldn't need to yard it. If someone else wants to take a crack at it, by all means. But I'm comfortable enough doing so

Edited by amathieu13 on May 16th 2022 at 6:38:33 AM

It's fine if you want to take it to TLP instead of it being Yarded, though I thought I'd add that I'd rather not wait until it's launched to close this thread as long as examples are moved to the draft before this thread is closed.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Oh that's fine. I don't think there are many examples with enough context that I can move over anyways.

This thread should def move on regardless of whether or not option 3 is selected

I should probably say that I'm against the idea of TLP drafts keeping TRS threads open in general, partially because the fact that TLP drafts have comment sections means discussion doesn't need to take place on TRS if the TRS-specific work (such as wick cleanup) is done, and partially because there's no guarantee that the drafts will even launch (such as how the draft that came from Critical Research Failure's TRS thread was eventually bombed and discarded). I wasn't singling out a potential draft for option 3.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 16th 2022 at 9:19:30 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Option 3.

Option 3

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Option 3

Macron's notes

Twin A: Option 3!

Twin B: Option 3!

Kirby is awesome.

as it's been 3 days and the convo seems to have settled, is it ok if we run a crowner on the options?

It's only been two days according to the timestamp on the opening post.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 18th 2022 at 11:28:05 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

whoops! time zone difference. haven't adjusted to it yet. apologies!

If we go with the option of launching a new trope, would we be doing what Bald Of Awesome's thread did with Bald of Authority's draft and transplanting valid wicks from the old trope to the new trope's draft (since the OP's original writer offered to make a draft), then turning the old name into a redirect or disambiguation page after the draft is launched? Dewicking for this wouldn't take nearly as long since this trope has 44 wicks while Bald Of Awesome had a buttload of wicks, but I figured the same principle could work for this.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 19th 2022 at 11:22:39 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

In theory yes. In practice, not really. I looked at every wick there is for the wick check and while there are a few that with more context, might fit the new trope, there are 0 examples that can be transported as is.

So if 3 is selected, we could dewick the trope immediately. I can bring any potential exanples to the tlp to see if others can add to them. If we conform to the misuse however, then yes, same process would apply.

We also didn't keep "bald of awesome" as a redirect since the name is ambiguous. For the new version, I dont think "think twins" would accurately describe the trope anymore so i wouldnt personally keep it as a redirect. That said, if we conform to the misuse we can keep the name and just transplant the new description and collected examples to the current page.

Edited by amathieu13 on May 19th 2022 at 4:06:52 AM

All right, just checking. We can cut Think Twins after the draft is created then.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

cool, the wick check is on my personal sandbox and as i said, it has every wick for this trope already on it so we can dewick and cutlist with no issues

All right, then closing since it's been dewicked and you already have an example list ready.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.