Needs Help: Queer Media

Sure, but I'd like a bit of fleshing out on what "focusing on..." means (especially since that's come up regarding the rest of Works by Subject), and some examples of what does and doesn't count. Not a huge essay or anything, just to make sure the cleanup thread can hit the ground running and isn't going like "is this a queer issue?".

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 29th 2021 at 9:34:11 AM

So, I have a question before I vote (or rather, in case I need to change my vote). What exactly is covered by queer issues? Ignoring Yuri Genre for a second, would something like Adachi And Shimamura where the primary issue is coming out to your same-sex crush count? Or would it be more like works like Philadelphia which focuses on gay issues like the AIDS crisis and homophobia that would be included?

I read through the thread and couldn't find a solid answer, so I thought I'd ask.

(Now to finish planning the TLP for the second trope that the Schoolgirl Lesbians called for)

Yes, that's exactly the kind of guideline finalizing I wanted, thanks

Philadelphia would definitely count, it's the exact type of work the index would be for. I'm not sure about the other one, but the main question would be "how much does the crush being same-sex matter?" Is the Coming-Out Story aspect central to the plot or is it more about confessing to a crush who happens to be the same sex?

The LGBT Rep index is getting voted up, so I’d like to ask a few questions:

• Would this be a list of every work with a queer character, regardless of how prominent? Or would there be some restriction I.e. they must be a main character?

• Would characters that are generally viewed as offensive count or would we only list "good representation" (and how would that be determined)?

• Is "media with queer characters" really a useful category? Being that it's a list of works sharing one specific thing in common, it seems more like a trope page than an index.

Edited by TheMountainKing on Nov 29th 2021 at 10:40:55 AM

To answer that first one, I say they should be a main or at least reoccurring secondary character, and their identity/orientation must be confirmed in the work.

I think we might have to go case-by-case on some of these, hence why I suggested the cleanup thread. People familiar with the work can speak on how much their identities influence the work, contextually and possibly even subtextually. I think most of it will be easy to spot, though. If the queer characters are all side characters then it's usually not "queer media" so much as "queer-friendly media."

I'm not talking about "Queer Media", I'm talking about the hypothetical "LGBT Representation Index". A side character is representation, are they not?

Under the current leading definition for Queer Media, a work would need to be about a characters queer identity, not just "subtextual influenced" by it. In the LGBT Rep index, I assume the character would simply need to exist, not influence the story thematically at all.

Edited by TheMountainKing on Nov 29th 2021 at 10:50:00 AM

I was talking to Sync about the original "what are the guidelines for cleanup" question and got your post confused with hers.

The LGBT Rep Index can be looser. I agree with Crossover, they should be a recurring character with a confirmed orientation. We needn't otherwise get too picky since this is kind of the "catch-all" index for LGBT+ rep. I'd also say that real life creators appearing in a work probably don't count as characters, as they belong in LGBT+ Creators.

Do you mean if creators appear as characters in a work? Like, playing themselves? Regardless, how would this index be structured? Just a list of names of works with queer characters? Use the weird "tagging" system that is currently on Queer Media? Or would we write a description for each work?

Edited by TheMountainKing on Nov 29th 2021 at 10:56:51 AM

Hang on, I thought we'd agreed that "happens to be the same sex" romance stories do count? [1]

Agreed.

Edited by Twiddler on Nov 29th 2021 at 8:04:52 AM

Eghh, I hate Queer Media's tagging system, let's not use that. I'd prefer if we just used something like "Main character is bisexual" or "Work has heavy focus on queer themes and stars a trans man" or something.

This is where the sub-indexes could come in handy. I already TLP'd "Transgender Media", so maybe stuff like "Bisexuality [and Pansexuality] in Media" and "Lesbian Media" could follow?

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 29th 2021 at 12:49:59 PM

Ooo, yeah! I'd recommend "Multisexuality in media" for a simpler title though.

My bad, if the story were about queer romance, it wouldn't be on this page, it'd be on W Queer Romance, which is a sub-index.

These would be sub-indexes of the LGBT Rep Index, not Queer Media, right? I worry you may have jumped the gun on making that TLP, because we still haven't settled on the new definition for Queer Media.

Most people will not know what the word "multisexuality" means.

Edited by TheMountainKing on Nov 30th 2021 at 4:45:11 AM

Really? I mean from the context of the index and that "multi" means "many", I don't think it would be that hard to figure out...

"Multisexuality" feels so... clinical, honestly. We could use it, but only if the other terms ("Bisexuality in Media" and such) are redirects.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 30th 2021 at 1:09:44 PM

I don't mind it because of the alliteration, but then I'm also not in the community and don't know much about the terms and what's preferred.

These are the only two options within consensus range:

• Define Queer Media as works focusing on queer issues and queer experiences as the primary subject matter and prune the rest (25:5)
• Create an LGBT Representation Index (can be done separately from the two redefining options) (20:6)

Since the crowner was hooked on November 29, tomorrow is the soonest it can be called, but it might need more time than that.

So what's next? Clean-up?

I think so, yes. Some works that have LGBT characters but don't focus on LGBT themes will need to go. This means no The Mitchells Vs. The Machines, no Cardcaptor Sakura (which was unfortunately added a few weeks ago), no Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts, no Komi Can't Communicate, etc. They can squarely fit on LGBT Representation Index, though.

Yeah, I think that's all. I neglected to star this thread when I called the crowner; that's been fixed.

While we're at it, can we also remove the weird tags? In most cases they don't even say if there's LGBT themes, just LGBT characters (though the ones that do are certainly helpful for this cleanup).

Also damn, I didn't know Cardcaptor Sakura had that many LGBT characters.

Maybe those more familiar with the context can rewrite the tags into something more cohesive?

Someone in the discussion part of the page asked for tags, and I thought it was a good idea at the time...But I have been working on rewriting some of them.