Making up for lost LGBTQ+ tropes

Why would I do that when I've said from the start that I DON'T want archetype pages deleted??? Am I supposed to do that as some kind of form of revenge?

Edited by Rakuraku on Oct 19th 2020 at 12:24:51 PM

Tropes like Bi The Way were more popular so the problems were more prominent. And while I have issues with the current selection of tropes on Bisexuality Tropes being almost entirely negative, the thing with Badass Gay, we still have tropes covering the basic idea that are now disambiguated on that page, and many of them are positive/neutral.

If you think there are more tropes to cover the concepts expressed on Badass Gay or Bi The Way, then by all means, pitch them to us! The reason a lot of specific LGBT tropes don't show up here is because the troper base is not predominantly familiar with LGBT media, making it hard to recognize their tropes, and media that isn't Queer Media tends to portray LGBT characters in a less savory light.

EDIT: Also we don't want "archetype tropes" deleted. Archetypes usually have narrative meaning. Badass Gay isn't an archetype like, say, Manly Gay.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 19th 2020 at 3:42:30 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

And we've said "personality + unrelated trait" is not a Character Archetype.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Then why are there so damn many? There's hundreds. I'm not trying to start a "If badass gay isn't a trope then neither is X Y!" war. I want the trope pages I enjoyed back, not the other way around.

Grandfather Clause. We used to be a lot more lax with what could count as a trope. I personally think the considerations for what's "tropeworthy" get a bit too narrow sometimes, but there are mass movements to clean up largely meaningless tropes, such as many Personal Appearance Tropes. Check out Trope Repair Shop and you see it's not only LGBT tropes getting torn apart.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 19th 2020 at 3:27:53 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Looking at the repair shop I see hardly any of the hundreds of "this is a character." trope pages being attacked. And apparently people expect me to do it myself so that I can be some kind of equalizer when that's not what I want. The criteria feels really arbitrary, like it was fine for months, if not years, and then somebody just decided one day that a character not being straight is worthless now.

Edited by Rakuraku on Oct 19th 2020 at 12:30:48 PM

Well Fat Girl, which you mentioned earlier, is under TRS right now, for what it's worth.

Honestly, it's kind of unfair to the other Queer as Tropes, many of which cover the same ideas as Badass Gay, that people keep pushing for the same generic tropes when there's a vast amount of unrealized specific LGBT tropes. We're focusing our efforts on making new tropes not bringing back new ones.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 19th 2020 at 3:34:53 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Badass Gay isn't coming back. Neither is Bi The Way.

If you have no goals other than bringing back cut tropes, you're wasting your time here.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Oct 19th 2020 at 12:35:09 PM

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

Finding out fat girl has multiple different pages for the exact same thing is what made me bring it up in the first place. And yet not one person is saying the other pages aren't trope worthy even though they're all in the same vein as happy fat guy or badass gay. Even fat girls isn't being voted to be removed entirely.

And yes I know it's not coming back. You got your way and now there's less enjoyable pages, thanks for nothing.

Edited by Rakuraku on Oct 19th 2020 at 12:36:16 PM

I didn't decide to cut either of them.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

What's wrong with Gayngster? Manly Gay? Lesbian Jock? Agent Peacock? These are tropes deemed similar to Badass Gay but actually connect more specifically to a character's personality. I'd say they're enjoyable, don't know what your problem is with them.

If there's something you think we're missing here, pitch. It. Yourself. Because this is a wiki and its up to us to find new specific tropes instead of lumping all gay characters under something generic and largely meaningless.

Gay characters have more personality than just being gay. It shouldn't be this damn hard to find new LGBT tropes. That's why I made this thread. There are more tropes and we should cover the more broad experience of the LGBT community in media instead of lumping them under some generic stuff.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 19th 2020 at 3:39:52 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

That just shows how little attention you're paying to wiki cleanup. Badass Gay prompted one thread in 2012 to analyze the pervasive misuse of Badass in general. The discussion on how valid it is as a trope has been the subject of discussion since before you joined this website.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Why do gay characters have to follow criteria that other characters do not?

They don't.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

They don't.

You're not listening to our logic, are you?

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

You're not listening to reality, because the reality is that tvtropes is far more reactive than it is proactive about this issue. Clearly nothing gets done until somebody decides to speak up and say a gay trope page is bad now.

Just Badass by itself isn't a trope either. It was, in fact, detropified long before Badass Gay.

Character Is Straight is also a thing we don't consider a trope, and never have. So there's no "extra criteria" Bi The Way failed to meet; they're both not tropes for the same reason.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

What you consider a trope is far from consistent.

That's very misleading, as we're talking about a discussion that took eight years before we made a descision.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

And what changed now that finally made it go from acceptable to crap over 8 years?

Rakuraku, if you have ideas, feel free to share them, but please take the time to understand how we do things here and why. We're not homophobes who hold a Double Standard against LGBT tropes, we're just trying to determine what's tropeworthy and what isn't. We also effectively cut Badass Grandpa because it was "old guy is tough".

Also, that's how every TRS thread gets started. It's all reactive. The proactive stuff is done in Trope Launch Pad, but our standards were looser when we launched a lot of these tropes. If you have an issue with how TRS works, that's an issue beyond just this thread.

This thread is supposed to be for new ideas and I'm genuinely hurt that it's getting derailed. There's very few positive bisexual tropes now, and instead of finding new ones, people just whine about change being bad. Like they don't want to put in the effort to represent us.

Anyway, I think I'm gonna holler a mod because this conversation is getting a bit hostile.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 19th 2020 at 3:49:02 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Cool Imperial, only 8000 Adjective Noun pages left.

Some "Adjectival Noun" pages are more tropeworthy than others. There are plenty of LGBT tropes we've done nothing to get rid of and plenty of non-LGBT-related tropes that have been cut. We're not singling out LGBT tropes.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Oct 19th 2020 at 12:50:50 PM

NO, It was pointed out that the concept was Not A Trope in 2012, and prompted extensive discussion over what "a trope" is. It was unacceptable in 2012 and we spent 8 years trying to decide how to salvage it.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.