Values Dissonance/Resonance Cleanup

Yeah, definitely cut that. I posted about this in the Hindsight cleanup thread, but all these entries making it sound like racially motivated police brutality only just now became a thing - or even just a hot-button issues - really strike me as profoundly ignorant and offensive. Like, I learned about Rodney King in a high-school level history class, for crying out loud.

I don't mind Values Resonance entries about police brutality because the trope's about morals or themes in a work that remain relevant years after their initial release. If anything, the fact it's still an issue is an argument for keeping the Values Resonance entry.

It's different from the Hindsight entries, since those are about future events that color the perception of something that came out years ago. Unless it's a very specific depiction, a recent incident of police brutality isn't really a new development that makes an older commentary of police brutality harsher or anything.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Sep 10th 2020 at 10:58:15 AM

Been thinking about adding The King of Comedy under Values Resonance for it's message about celebrities and fandoms and how they resonate more in this era of the internet. Anyone here agree?

This is on The Aristocats (under a valid example of Values Dissonance)

• Also, the idea of someone leaving an entire fortune to their pets today probably wouldn't be considered that much better, given several real-life instances of privileged individuals doing the same.

That's laughable in any age.

This was added to Matilda under Values Dissonance:

• Some parents see this in Matilda's adoption by Miss Honey. As in, Matilda allowed the first nice person she saw to adopt her. When you consider the actions of some teachers these days, some parents find the Aesop unfriendly just because the nice adult happened to be a teacher.

Yeah, that doesn't hold up at all. While I'm sure that there are plenty of horrible people that happen to be teachers, that doesn't suddenly mean that a teacher adopting someone is a bad thing.

That entry's been discussed before.

I forgot to remove it. Go ahead and cut it.

Found this on Values Resonance:

• "A Real Life" by Greek Fire brought up many downsides of the Internet and the digital age in 2013. Years later, with the growing rise and concerns about addiction, mental health, data mining, surveillance capitalism, cancel culture, and political polarization, it has only grown more and more relevant.

Hasn’t been 20 years, and is far off from being 20 years old, so examples like that can instantly be cut.

All of those concerns listed were also concerns in 2013.

Found this on Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory under Values Dissonance:

• The computer objects to helping find the candy bar because it would be cheating, and what can a computer do with a lifetime of candy? These days, computers are used for various unethical means, and more than likely can't raise moral objections.

What is that even trying to be? Whatever it is, it's not Values Dissonance.

Dump it in the incinerator.

From Raiders of the Lost Ark

• Values Dissonance:
  • The insinuation, confirmed in side material, that Indy first dated Marion when she was a teenager and he was in his twenties. This wouldn't have been seen as too surprising in the time period it is set.
  • Most of the Arab characters are played by white actors in brownface. Needless to say, this casting practice has fallen out of favour.

The second thing isn't part of the story, so I'm not sure if that qualifies as an example, and the first thing seems... I don't recall how old Indy was supposed to be, but both math and Word of God confirm that Marion was 15 at the time; I don't know if that was considered "okay" even in the 30s.

I think the dissonance with Marion's age is more that the creators found it acceptable.

The second point counts, IMO. Just like blackface, it's a prime example of something that was considered okay in filmmaking at one point but wouldn't fly nowadays.

Well, then the example text needs to reflect that; right now it's focused on the time the work was set, not the time it was written.

Filthy Frank ended three years ago, so this should be removed.

• Values Dissonance: Many of the offensive jokes Frank made back when the videos came out would no longer be acceptable today, even with the whole premise of the show.

I dont think jokes from Equal-Opportunity Offender works count....The whole point of the work is that you make fun of everyone without expectation. Values Dissonance seems to be plain misuse.

OTOH, claiming to be an Equal-Opportunity Offender is definitely sometimes a shield for "I like to punch down without getting called on it!" I don't think it prevents examples as long as the usual rules otherwise apply.

I have no idea who Filthy Frank is, fwiw.

I dont either.

Plus, contrary to public opinion, you can be an Equal-Opportunity Offender and not rely on outdated values or bigotry, finding other ways instead to criticize whatever group you choose. So it's possible to say something years ago that you wouldn't say today even if you wanted to mock a group.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 10th 2020 at 9:11:07 AM

Nonetheless, if the point of the work is to offend people, still offending those exact people twenty years later can hardly be called Values Dissonance.