We kinda need to distinguish between it, Reality Is Unrealistic and Truth in TV first.
We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
I can see why it would be considered patronizing, but Aluminum Christmas Trees is (possibly) written more as if it were from a historian's perspective, about culture in general rather than the audience, about generational differences.
I agree that it should be YMMV. Thinking that a plot element is unrealistic is an audience reaction, not something with a narrative purpose.
Short-Term Projects herald
I made a TRS thread over a year ago asking for it to be renamed and moved to YMMV, but it was rejected for lacking evidence.
As far as the YMMV thing goes, I'd love to see it over there. It's an Audience Reaction, pure and simple.
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
Blapper of Water
This was brought up in the TRS thread for Reality Is Unrealistic (here
). If it helps, here's the wick check for Reality Is Unrealistic that I did back then.
It's important to note here, as was noted in the TRS thread for RIU, that Audience Reaction is not merely "audience has this reaction." A necessary component, mentioned by Madrugada here, is "It's something fans emotionally go through from experiencing the work."
Regarding Aluminum Christmas Trees, there is even less emotion involved. It's an objective fact that X (e.g. aluminum Christmas trees) is no longer used in RL, so when X shows up in a work, audience members who have never seen X assume it to be a wholly fictional thing rather than something that once existed but no longer does.
IMO, the Joker example in OP does not even count as ACT. I'd have difficulty believing that any medical condition could count at all, unless that condition no longer exists in RL.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
As written, Aluminum Christmas Trees is not limited to things of the past. Any currently existing thing can be the target.
Blapper of Water
I meant to add this but got distracted:
If it is reasonable to say that most people would not know of the existence of X, then it can count as ACT. For example, it is a fact that X (e.g. Faygo) only exists in a certain region of the world (e.g. the American Midwest), so it is reasonable to say that when X shows up in a work, most members of the audience would likely assume X to be a wholly fictional thing.
It is not the case that "any currently existing thing can be" an example of Aluminum Christmas Trees. (I include this because I believe this lends credence to the argument that it is not an Audience Reaction.)
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
"audience members who have never seen X assume it to be a wholly fictional thing rather than something that once existed but no longer does."
If this doesn't sound like Audience Reaction to you, then I question your mindset
We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
What about Trivia?
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
As far as I know, Trivia is for objective behind-the-scenes tropes. ACT can affect each viewer differently.
Aluminum Christmas Trees is in a similar position as Shown Their Work, the subject matter is evident within the work itself and is not about the reaction of the audience that would make it YMMV or behind-the-scenes information that would make it trivia.
The real issue is more just how redundant it is with Reality Is Unrealistic and Values Dissonance. The core idea is about something that is treated as normal and common for the time or place but doesn't translate very well to the point of seeming to be made up. The distinction against Reality Is Unrealistic is that it requires some historical context to understand rather than acknowledged facts of the modern day (the picture isn't a good example, the smiley face on Mars hasn't changed over time).
^ Not seeing the overlap between these two tropes. Quoting Madrugada from another thread:
- Reality Is Unrealistic: Something fictional is assumed to be realistic.
- Aluminum Christmas Trees: Something that's real is assumed to be fictional.
RIU's name is not helping, then
No, Reality Is Unrealistic is when a misconception is so widespread that when it is portrayed correctly THAT is assumed to be a fabrication. Madrugada even clarifies that a couple posts later. You wouldn't list the trope on works that only reinforce a misconception. An example would be using a real 16 year old instead of Dawson Casting and the actor is perceived as too young. The trope is often used identically to Freakier Than Fiction, as that is using Artistic License because they don't think the truth will be seen as believable.
There, we got yet another similar trope.
Perhaps a better way to distinguish Reality Is Unrealistic from Aluminum Christmas Trees is that in the former case, fiction spoiled our perception of what is real while the latter is purely based on the viewer's ignorance on the matter.
That's a good direction to go. Maybe a little more precise:
- Aluminum Christmas Trees: Real facts and information is perceived as being a fabrication.
- Reality Is Unrealistic: Storytelling conventions lead to realistic elements being seen as inaccurate.
and what about Freakier Than Fiction?
At the moment, "gypsies are a real ethnic group with dark brown skin" is listed under Aluminum Christmas Trees, saying that the average moviegoer does not know that Romani people exist and assume Esmeralda from The Hunchback of Notre Dame is Ambiguously Brown. That might be true for American audiences, but for any European, it is Eskimos Aren't Real level of ignorance.
Edited by Snicka on Feb 9th 2020 at 10:20:17 AM
...
^ That's why it says "non-Europeans".
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Right, as discussed elsewhere, Americans aren't really familiar with "gypsies" and are far more likely to believe they don't even exist in reality, or at least that they aren't an ethnic group.
Anyway, I can see the argument for making it YMMV, my Trivia idea was mostly because whether or not the thing exists is external to the work itself and is an objective fact; but you're right that it's also about audience perception.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Freakier Than Fiction is the direct acknowledgement that the truth is weirder than the story told in it's place.
none of the examples are along that kind, though.
That's, like, ALL of the examples. The problem is the trope is used more as behind-the-scenes trivia than the work itself. It's an issue with Reality Is Unrealistic too.
My problem with Aluminum Christmas Trees is that whenever I see examples on a workpage, it's written like the confusion is universal. How can one make that call about the rest of the audience?
Latest example from the Joker (2019): the Joker has a medical condition that makes him laugh at inappropriate times. I never felt this was a fictional condition so reading the entry on the workpage feels patronizing.
Shouldn't we at least require some proof of evidence that more than just the poster themselves assumed some real thing to be fictional? Or better yet, move this to YMMV?
Edited by eroock on Feb 7th 2020 at 11:43:28 AM