See here for Nightmare Fuel
, which has frequent enough problems to deserve a thread of its own.
A while ago, I made a thread for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages, since they tend to attract all sorts of gushing about anything vaguely unsettling, as well as violations of Example Indentation and the Spoiler Policy among other problems. Well, other Moments pages have similar issues, though to a slightly lesser extent, so they may as well have a cleanup thread too.
"Moments" reactions should:
- Be free of spoiler tags, in accordance with the Spoilers Off policy which states that:
Fridge, Headscratchers, and the various Moments subpages (Tear Jerker, Moment of Awesome, etc.) are for post-viewing discussions. Spoiler tagging there defeats the purpose of the articles. You shouldn't be going there if you are worried about them.
- Be based on things that actually have happened, not things that could happen, will happen, or might have happened. Speculation belongs only on the Wild Mass Guessing pages.
- Have affected the writer of the entry themselves. If you don't find something funny or sad, let someone who did add it to Funny Moments or Tear Jerker.
- Elicit a strong reaction. Not every single time a character accomplishes something is an Awesome Moment, not every attempt at comedy is a Funny Moment, not every time someone does something nice is a Heartwarming Moment, and not every unhappy event is a Tear Jerker.
- Explain why they're so awesome/funny/sad: Zero Context Examples aren't allowed on this wiki. Your description should allow anyone to understand your reaction.
edited 30th Apr '18 6:39:13 PM by Zuxtron
Musician/Composer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Gotcha.
So, whenever I see a moments page (such as TJ, Funny, etc.) filled with extensive Word Cruft problems, I usually take care of it while I trim down the examples to remove gushing, negativity, etc.
However, if I get stuck on whether an entry on a moments page is valid or invalid, I would usually post here to get feedback from others.
Edited by gjjones on Jun 20th 2021 at 9:56:57 AM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Heartwarming.Amphibia was split into three season pages, even though the third season at least has only one example. Is that OK, or should they be merged back in some capacity?
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
I fully believe the season 3 page should be cut. In fact, gimme a sec . . . .
The entirety of TearJerker.Dragon Ball Z Bardock The Father Of Goku is a mess. Except the image, ironically.
- How about the entire final scene? ZCE, relying on the subbullets to do the heavy lifting.
- Oh God, YES. Or even earlier, when Bardock assists the dying Toma in his last moments and then starts using the cloth he used to clean up Toma's blood from his face as a Tragic Keepsake headband. Following his death at Planet Vegeta’s destruction, said headband SOMEHOW managed to survive and float away into space, as if it was a final goodbye from Bardock himself. Seems more like a forum conversation than a TJ page.
- When Bardock and grown up Goku meet and talk to each other. It's very brief but still tearjerking. Especially the part when Bardock reached out to Goku. Redundant with the next bullet.
- Goku telling his father it's not too late to have a change of heart and make a difference. While he didn't save himself or his home planet, Bardock managed to repent.
- This is even more moving because of Bardock's last words:
Bardock: "My... son... lives... on."- Bardock's final words to Goku in spirit as he heads towards Earth in the English dub is also one big tearjerker. The music didn't help:
Bardock: "Kakarot, my son, thank you for helping me. You were right. It wasn't too late. I only wish I could have held you in my arms when I had the chance. Goodbye, my son."- Double wham points for Bardock's goodbye being similar to Goku's goodbye to Gohan in the Cell saga. Namely, they both end with, "Goodbye, my son"' Not relating to this movie.
- Bardock lamenting never having held his son in his arms. Vegeta would have similar regrets in regards to his son just before his Heroic Sacrifice. At least Vegeta had a chance to hug Trunks. Could use a rewrite.
- Really, for Bardock to finally acknowledged Goku in the end he never thinks about his firstborn, Raditz. Even in his dying moments. Makes you wonder what kind of relationship they had. Fridge Horror.
- Grandpa Gohan finding Kakarot in the forest and giving him his name. More powerful in the Japanese version with the music and the narrator saying:
Narrator: And the curtain opens on the grand adventure that is Dragon Ball. Heartwarming, not TJ.
- You can never look at the original Dragon Ball the same after seeing this special. Natter.
- In the dub, when Vegeta learns of his planet's destruction, he declines to reply to the messenger and sits in shocked silence. Alright.
- "Hikari no Tabi", the Japanese ending theme for the special— a somber song about how a light representing hopes and dreams will always shine through time and space. Again, heartwarming, not TJ.
- In this case, the "light" is Bardock's legacy: Kakarot himself, as we watch scenes from the original Dragon Ball and early Z showing his journey of growing from a child into a man, leading up to his ultimate showdown with Frieza. Improper indentation and natter.
Musician/Composer
According to this ATT, the "we" language can actually be used in the correct context and circumstance. That said, I have a question: what's the best way to deal with this in moments pages?
Edited by gjjones on Jun 28th 2021 at 5:24:01 AM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
From Funny.Star Wars The Bad Batch:
- While Fennec tries to worm her way into Omega's confidence, the very naive Omega (not knowing she is after her) thought that this solitary lady-with-firearms should come instead with the Bad Batch (who themselves probably have bounties as well by now). Fennec's response was that it's "the best offer [she'd] had in a long time", probably thinking to herself how she might in fact net all of them in one go. Of course, things didn't go down as easy.
A 'meta' moment was recently added to Awesome.Hadestown. I forget, are those allowed? (Also it won eight, not seven.)
- Meta: The show would go on to win seven Tony awards, including a much deserved Best Director for Rachel Chavkin. Using the platform given to her, Chavkin dedicated her speech to other women and BIPOC directors and demanded Broadway to give them a fair chance at showing their work on a commercial stage.
Chavkin:"I wish I wasn't the only woman directing a musical on Broadway this season. There are so many women who are ready to go. There are so many artists of color who are ready to go. And we need to see that racial diversity and that gender diversity reflected in our critical establishment, too. This is not a pipeline issue. It is a failure of imagination by a field whose job is to imagine the way the world could be. So, let's do it."
Edited by lalalei2001 on Jul 6th 2021 at 2:58:52 PM
The Protomen enhanced my life.
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
Tearjerker.Animorphs has a lot of first-person writing and repetition.
Musician/Composer
Indeed, I think this may also be brought up on the First Person Writing cleanup where necessary.
Edited by gjjones on Jul 7th 2021 at 3:01:35 PM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
Someone made Tearjerker.My Little Pony A New Generation, even though it's not out yet, and both of the examples read like Fridge entries. Should I cutlist it?
Very Spooky
Both examples feel like huge shoehorns as well. Cut the page.
Edited by jandn2014 on Jul 7th 2021 at 1:42:14 PM
back lol
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
Added to the cutlist.
KIRBY CAR
I've done it.
Follow up to the YMMV.RWBY Chibi clean-up of Tear Jerker that I posted here.
The troper ~Bellaboo2 has added back two of the entries that were removed, with original wording intact. The edit reason is long, but basically makes it clear that:
- They're aware of the Moments clean-up thread and have read the reasons for the removal (since they're twisting one of the reasons)
- They have zero intention of engaging in a discussion about it.
- They seem to be confused about the difference between a summary of a scene and a summary of an audience reaction to a scene.
- They can't be bothered to rewrite the entries as legitimate audience reactions to get them added back to the page in a legitimate way... despite being willing to write audience reactions into the edit reason itself. This baffles me: if you're making the effort to write a legitimate audience reaction, why not do it to the entry itself instead of the edit reason?
The entries they've added back (with original wording) are as follows:
- While the deadpan tone and presence in PSA for reading books are clearly meant to be comical, Blake's brief monologue in Episode 7 of Season 3 almost perfectly summarizes her internal struggles in the canon show.
Blake: I feel suffocated by the weight of my past mistakes and the hurt I've caused my friends. If only there was a way to atone for what I've done.
- Episode 2 of Neon Konbini focuses on a depressed Velvet. That's basically the episode, Coco finding Velvet feeling blue and is unable to cheer her up.
- While the deadpan tone and presence in PSA for reading books are clearly meant to be comical, Blake's brief monologue in Episode 7 of Season 3 almost perfectly summarizes her internal struggles in the canon show.
Edit reasons for the original removal in the folder to spare people having to click back to the original post:
Note, the removal reason Bellaboo2 twists is the PSA one — the point of my edit reason is, because the monologue deliberately and perfectly reflects her canon struggles, the entry is still just a scene summary as written instead of being an audience reaction. Now, clearly Bellaboo2 feels it can be written as an audience reaction, he just doesn't want to be the one who does it.
- While the deadpan tone and presence in PSA for reading books are clearly meant to be comical, Blake's brief monologue in Episode 7 of Season 3 almost perfectly summarizes her internal struggles in the canon show.
- Blake: I feel suffocated by the weight of my past mistakes and the hurt I've caused my friends. If only there was a way to atone for what I've done.
- Blake is set up to look like she's doing an emo character exaggeration that's parodying her main show storyline — the whole point is for the line to perfectly summarise her canon internal struggles; the joke is that she's the Only Sane Man of the skit, so is not playing along with Oobleck's book advertisement — he doesn't care and carries on anyway. At the end of the skit, she's the only without a book and tries to argue that Oobleck's wrong about the idea that books can fix every problem (cue skit's punchline being Ruby turning up with the Necronomicon, and causing problems just by opening it). Remove.
- Episode 2 of Neon Konbini focuses on a depressed Velvet. That's basically the episode, Coco finding Velvet feeling blue and is unable to cheer her up. The best she can do is sit right next to her to give her company.
- Scene summary. Remove.
Ultimately, the reason the entries were removed in the first place is because as written they're Tear Jerker misuse. If this troper, or anyone else, wants to write a legitimate entry for these scenes that actually talks about the audience reaction to the scene instead of scene summarising or discussing character reactions, they're welcome to do so. But, until a legitimate entry is written, misuse shouldn't be on the page.
Do I have permission to remove these two entries from the page again?
Edited by Wyldchyld on Jul 11th 2021 at 1:45:55 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Sounds like they may need a trip to ATT. I've noticed they've been adding entries to the Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining that, ironically, are themselves complaining.
Okay, I'll flag it on ATT as well.
Edited to add: Flagged on ATT here.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Jul 11th 2021 at 1:34:17 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Industrious Incisors
Found on Awesome.The Owl House (Season 2 episode 5) (spoiler tag mine):
After everything Luz does to get Amity her job back, Amity rewards her with what shippers have been clamoring for: A kiss (A cheek kiss, but still). Luz is completely flabbergasted.
IDK, this feels a bit too much like a "meta" for my tastes.
It's also already listed in Heartwarming with different wording, where I feel it fits better anyway.
Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Jul 11th 2021 at 8:38:52 AM
SoundCloud
It's also basically a plot summary that just barely hits "shipper reaction" territory instead of being a genuine audience reaction.
If the shippers loved it, then it's probably a legitimate Awesome moment. It just needs to be properly written.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Chronic lore addict
A few pages back, TearJerker.Hololive was brought up over concerns of meta-troping, since Tear Jerker is NRLEP and streamers of any variety are inevitably going to bring up the real world in the midst of their usual content. I seconded a motion to cut a lengthy example involving Kanata since it was very obviously a real-life topic being said through an online persona, although on further inspection it seems the page is in need of further cleanup. Some more potentially problematic examples I've identified, abridged:
- Watame's upbringing, which doesn't seem connected to her persona at all.
- An example with Calliope involving an Applebee's, which appears to be an actual incident from her real life with all references to the underworld simply being censorship of any potentially identifying locations besides Japan. There's also another example above it involving quitting a job, but the heavier use of substitute terminology makes me wonder if that could make it a valid example through a Framing Device.
- An example with Amelia involving the loss of a friend and real-life speculation over whether or not a certain stream was actually intended to be a memorialization.
- Watame spoke about her upbringing, that was mostly raised by her grandmother as her mother was working a lot and her father was, in western parlance, a deadbeat dad. During the parents divorce, Japanese law required the mother to at least ask if he wanted custody and her father's response was that "he would rather put Watame into an orphanage than take her himself".
- Later Watame expressed her desire to one day afford to buy a house for her mother as her main goal in becoming a vtuber.
- Watame is also prone to shedding tears when her members & donators express thankfulness for her personality and streams, with one particular example being a viewer who had suicidal intentions but decided to keep living because her streams gave him a renewed purpose in life, and she opened up a bit about her own struggles with depression and anxiety.
- A fan once sent a Superchat about dealing a loss of a family member which made Watame move to tears as she recounts how her own grandmother passed away, but she was unable to see her. She was aware of her grandmother's failing health and feared that one day she would pass away. She received a ring by post that confirmed her fears as she wanted her grandmother to hear her sing after the release of her first CD. She then tells the donator "I wouldn't say you should work hard, but let's try to live on together because we are not just by ourselves".
- During Amelia's second Superchat reading, she reveals she spent most of her life caring for someone and when they weren't around anymore, she felt like she lost her purpose and just played games. You can hear her tearing up a bit as she reveals this.
- Amelia's first (unarchived) karaoke stream at first seemed to just have songs that she felt she could sing well, including The Moon Song as well as a very odd choice in something like Goldfinger's Superman. However, several fans were quick to note that nearly all the songs chosen contained lyrical content that dealt with feelings of loss, letting go, or helplessness, with a theory that the stream was secretly dedicated to the aforementioned person.
- During a freetalk stream towards the end of December 2020, Calliope talked about having a difficult discussion with "Death-Sensei" in regards to quitting her job as a scythe-swinging teacher. Death-sensei did not take this news well and forced her to work on Christmas Eve as her last day. Calli's tried to say that she'd rather spend that time with her friends, but Death-sensei's response was to remind her that she doesn't have any friends to spend time with, to which Calli didn't have any rebuttal. At face value, it's a very sobering reality for her that her first real friends were the ones she's made since joining hololive, such as Kiara, and it makes sense why she's so attached to them.
- Well before joining hololive, Calli worked a summer job as a waitress in the Underworld's branch of Applebee's. Her first day on the job was a shitshow that nearly drove her to quit and give up on her goal of taking a trip to Japan in the Overworld: first, she accidentally messed up an order of macaroni that drew the ire of her customers. Next, the "madam" complained about her alcoholic drink not being alcoholic and ordered another one, with Calli convincing the kindly bartender demon to add extra tequila. For her trouble, Calli got the drink thrown in her face, and she broke down and cried as the manager got into a fight with one of the customers torturing her. The silver lining to this is that Calli stuck with the job just long enough to finally get to Overworldian Japan, which in turn, eventually led to her joining hololive.
As the previous poster to bring this page up mentioned, the line between Real Life and what would be tropable content under a Let's Play or Web Animation seems pretty thin here, so some extra assistance would be of help. It just feels wrong and off-mission to write about low points in the lives of real people, avatar or no avatar, like they're scripted emotional scenes or lore in a show or game, even if that isn't the intent.
Edited by TrocyteV on Jul 18th 2021 at 10:23:53 AM
"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
Angry babby
Is TearJerker.You Can Play This salvageable? One example is a ZCE, and the others are all tributes based on meta stuff, and after Justin was outed as an alleged sexual abuser, most of those tributes were redacted by the people who made them.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Chronic lore addict
Oof, all those meta examples are the kind of examples that made me want to go over the page in my above post with a fine-tooth comb. I'd agree with cutting since I'm not familiar with the source material and moving the ZCE to YMMV with added context, if at all possible.
"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
NVM
Edited by dsneybuf on Jul 21st 2021 at 11:31:13 AM
Chronic lore addict
Bumping and also mentioning there seems to be a new example that was added the instant the EN Twitter account announced Iofi had contracted COVID-19. Considering it openly talks about how these are real people and not just avatars, that's grounds for an equally instant cut per NRLEP, right?
Edited by TrocyteV on Jul 21st 2021 at 8:41:06 AM
"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
Angry babby
It was already cut.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I don't see the point of fixing word cruft first and then trying to figure out which entries are valid or invalid. Doing it the other way around makes more sense to me.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.