Duplicate tropes discussion thread

I assume Deleted Scene needs at least a voice-acted animatic, as "deleted" implies it's been produced and then removed. Same with Dummied Out — the content must have been there at some point, not just considered in pre-production.

So for this, the voiced animated clips are Deleted Scene while the unvoiced storyboards are What Could Have Been? If so do we need confirmation it never got to being voiced?

I asked on the previous page about Troubled, but Cute vs. Broken Bird but there hasn't been a response yet.

Broken Bird requires a backstory and Troubled, but Cute just requires mental distress regardless of cause. So the former's a subtrope of the latter, and also more biased towards women for some reason.

From what you've said, Broken Bird seems to be Dark and Troubled Past, but female. Still has the "Same But More Specific" issue.

How do you differentiate Character Signature Song and Image Song?

a Character Signature Song usually appears in the work itself, may be an existing song, and either way typically does not appear outside of the work. an Image Song is usually an original composition, sold on as its own single/album separate from the work, and traditionally does not appear in the work unless it's an "insert" song. an image song is also a japan-specific term and concept, so uses of it for non-japanese works are misuse except in very specific circumstances.

Apologies if this has been brought up before, but what exactly is the difference between Careful with That Axe and Metal Scream? Ostensibly, the former is supposed to be when sudden screaming is used in a song as a jumpscare, while the latter is supposed to be when loud screaming is used to draw out or emphasize a note (which in turn sounds like something that overlaps strongly with Incredibly Long Note), but in practice there seems to be a ton of overlap between the two.

Metal Scream is younger, so I wonder if Careful with That Axe collected examples of Metal Scream for a little bit before the latter's creation. The examples of Metal Scream I've seen are drawn out notes of one word or an actual scream, while examples of Careful with That Axe include speech.

Careful with That Axe also has an incredibly unclear name and I wonder if it's misused for actual axe-accidents.

Well that might complicate matters a bit, because based on that description, Careful with That Axe's own trope namer ("Careful with That Axe, Eugene" by Pink Floyd) would be closer to a Metal Scream if not for its suddenness, even when taking account of the fact that it came first.

Edited by bowserbros on Aug 14th 2022 at 1:18:55 AM

Very proud of you for not taking very easy opportunity to say "axe-cident"

Perhaps you can do a wick check for a more formal review of trope use?

I haven't seen Careful used for actual axes, so that's probably good.

I hadn't thought about that pun until now

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 14th 2022 at 6:31:53 AM

Maybe? The question in that case is which of the two tropes to focus on.

Character Exaggeration versus Flanderization? They try to distinguish it on both pages, but it comes across as The Same, but More Specific.

I think CE is supposed to be for adaptations whereas Flanderization is specifically for within a series, though I often see the latter on CE.

At least in intent

Character Exaggeration: Character changes over the course of multiple adaptations of a work.

Flanderization: Character changes over the direct course of a work or franchise.

I do think Character Exaggeration should be clearly made into a subtrope rather than just a related one though.

I don't see enough between the two to warrant them being different tropes tbh. We've been having a convo about "trope" and "trope but in this medium" tropes as of late and basically if the more narrow medium doesn't change how the trope is played they are effectively the same.

Edited by amathieu13 on Aug 15th 2022 at 12:21:50 PM

We can put the merger up in TRS.

By the way, The Other Wiki borrowed the term "Flanderization" from us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanderization

It's not "trope" and "trope in this medium", though. Changing something in an adaptation is a lot different than changing it within one work.

Frankly I really do not like this growing tendency to merge tropes based primarily on people misusing them.

Especially ones used outside this wiki commonly now and originated here.

on "exaggerated over the course of one work" and "exaggerated by adaptations" being "effectively the same". And I strongly oppose a merge when the concept's gained traction outside the site.

Looking at the laconic, Character Exaggeration is for when a trait gets exaggerated, but doesn't overtake their personality. Meanwhile, Flanderization is for when the exaggerated trait becomes their only defining trait.

Merging tropes based on misuse is not a new trend or uncommon. If people are continuously misuing tropes and using them interchangeably, that's evidence that as currently written there isn't enough there to accurately distinguish between the two / the difference is so minute, it's negligible in most cases. It doesn't matter if we can think of technical differences if that's not how the tropes are being used on site. This is why when trope splits are proposed in TRS we split tropes by the use shown in their wicks and yard any other uses.

That said, nothing is going to be done with flanderization or character exaggeration if a wick check shows there isn't an issue. And even if a conflation issue is found, TRS may go with a wick clean, a rewrite of the def for both pages for clarity, etc. if it's not too extensive.

All I'm saying is that it's worth the wick check to see what's going on with both

Edited by amathieu13 on Aug 16th 2022 at 8:09:27 AM

Character Exaggeration might just need a better name. i agree the idea is distinct, but it sounds redundant to flanderization if you just look at the name by itself. though it probably would need a wick check to see if the name causes any significant misuse

Expositing the Masquerade vs. To Unmasque the World?