Needs Help: The The Title

So, the majority opinion is "Rename to Direct Article Title and Example Sectionectomy"?

Do we need a crowner? Or should I just holler for everyone who didn't see that option?

Titles with repeating words presumably would go in Tyop on the Cover?

Indirect Article Title would be a valid trope, right?

edited 16th Jun '18 3:30:42 PM by Malady

I don't see a need for troping works with "the" in the title (or "a" for that matter).

I'm not sure it needs a trope, either. Maybe it should be narrowed down to cases where "the" conveys something significant.

Just troping every bit of syntax seems a bit pointless.

edited 17th Jun '18 6:08:38 AM by Redmess

- Every bit of syntax helps the reader, but I actually don't see many tropes about it.

But, in regards to Definite Article Title...

If you have a title of "The Team", then you know it's about a specific team, while "Team"... I dunno. There might be a viable trope for Ambiguous One Word Titles?

Articles are important.

Then I'd propose writing a general article on the subject, rather than a plethora of tropes about this and that bit of syntax.

How is this not chairs?

These title tropes all seem to be stretching the concept of a trope a bit far. Yes, they are patterns, and yes, they are deliberate choices, but do they convey any meaningful information? That third part needs to be remembered.

Nouns, pronouns, verbs and adverbs, I can see, but "the"? I have a hard time seeing a trope in that as well.

- Giving a definite article makes the title refer to some specific instance of something, instead of a concept, usually?

It makes the reader think there's some specific thing to look out for, anyway?

... Also makes it more ominous? Like Spell My Name with a "The"?

There are people adding examples, so this should be done sooner than later...

Maybe we should have a trope for every title that has the letter E in one of the words.

We could call it, I dunno, Titl E.

Edited by jamespolk on Aug 25th 2018 at 2:51:48 AM

- Okay, that got a chuckle.

But pronouns are different from Constrained Writing.

I'm generally against using definite and indefinite articles for titles. "Stoic" and "The Stoic" have one difference between them, namely that the definite article implies that there's only one. An indefinite version, "A Stoic" seems even more pointless.

This relates back to work titles. There doesn't seem to be any benefit to calling it The Harry Potter compared to Harry Potter or The Lord of the Rings compared to Lord of the Rings, just linguistic quirks.

I mentioned earlier that there's a possible contrast between the "Article and Noun" concept and One-Word Title, like with Das Boot, The Crucible, and The Mummy.

Is there anybody who doesn't think this page should be cut, and if so, why?

Calling ~foxley 'cause they've been adding so many examples.

And still sticking by "A Definite Article Indicates that the viewer should be on the lookout for a specific instance of something and removes some of the mystery in a vaguer One-Word Title".

But, a title change, instead of totally removing the concept, would be fine with me.

From the way it is currently written, I had taken this trope to be about titles using the definite article: in particular, two word titles in which the first word is 'The'. The page image certainly supports this (and in no way suggests this is supposed to be about a surfeit of 'the's) and the link on One-Word Title implies it is a Sister Trope for titles using the definite article.

Personally, I think a title trope for two word titles using the definite article is at least as valid as a trope for One Word Titles.

Edited by foxley on Aug 28th 2018 at 8:52:49 AM

I don't think this is a trope that needs an exhaustive (and exhausting) list of examples. If we keep it, the desription really speaks for itself, without a need for a long list of examples merely demonstrating that the example does indeed have "the" in the title.

^^ The very first sentence makes it clear that this trope is about the exhaustive use of "The" in a serial work or in works by the same author. If it's followed by one noun or many is secondary.

I suggest cleaning out the example list which it mostly consisting of random "the" works and check the crosswicks for correct use.

Can you give a clear example for reference?

- If it is "A lot of titles that start with "The"", then it's just a specific form of Idiosyncratic Episode Naming...

Which is already wicked from The The Title...

And Idiosyncratic Episode Naming's picture is basically also a The The Title example... Except extended to "The One With The [X]"...

Edited by Malady on Aug 29th 2018 at 6:37:07 AM

I don't see how anyone can regard this as a trope. Or how this is even a subject for debate instead of an immediate cut. C'mon people, starting a title with "The" is People Sit on Chairs.

Edited by jamespolk on Aug 29th 2018 at 10:06:33 AM

Please don't just assume that it's Administrivia.Self Explanatory. I for one disagree that this is People Sit on Chairs.

For one thing, the PSOC page says:

A work's title normally always conveys some sort of information to the audience. This is why we have any title trope at all.

The PSOC page continues:

So, while any given "title starting with a definite article" may be People Sit on Chairs, there may be specific plays in which such a concept is tropeable.

My argument is, basically (using logic-y rhetoric):

1. Most work's titles convey "some sort of information to the audience."
2. If a title conveys "some sort of information to the audience," then it is tropeable.
3. Some instances of "title starting with a definite article" are tropeable.
4. At least one instance of The The Title being tropeable is when "title starting with a definite article" is used consistently within a series. This would make it a subtrope of Idiosyncratic Episode Naming.
5. If The The Title is a subtrope of Idiosyncratic Episode Naming, then it is tropeable.

Moreoever, a title just happening to use a definite article (being a simple noun phrase of "article + noun") is not necessarily tropeable. However, I argue that it would be a separate trope were it tropeable. It's a different convention because there's no series-wide pattern.

Edited by WaterBlap on Aug 29th 2018 at 10:48:43 AM

It's chairs.

It's not chairs.

My, it certainly is easy to flatly contradict someone else without actually addressing any of their reasoning. I certainly see the appeal now. Why, we could continue this merry-go-round all the livelong day and never accomplish anything!

Edited by HighCrate on Aug 29th 2018 at 3:17:35 AM