Not Tropeworthy: Antimatter

Firstly, the description is half a page on what antimatter is, what it does and the difficulties in creating and storing it, which is very cool and all, but there is no trope in play. Then we have the "examples" from Real Life which is another two paragraphs about antimatter.

The other examples largely fall into three categories: 1) The presence/mentioning of antimatter, which mostly is People Sit On Chairs. 2) The usage of antimatter as a magical do-all Phlebotinum material. 3) A universe/people made entirely out of antimatter.

I'd say 1) should be scrapped; 2) can probably be merged into Unobtanium or Artistic License – Physics; 3) can either be merged into Mirror Universe or turned into an article about antimatter-people.

As for the article itself I'm not sure between moving it to Useful Notes and just deleting it.

I'm inclined to agree with the analysis here. Antimatter is a kind of Applied Phlebotinum found in both hard and soft sci-fi, but as presented, most examples are "there's antimatter in this story", which doesn't add anything useful.

" Antimatter is a kind of Applied Phlebotinum found in both hard and soft sci-fi," There's the meat of the trope. It's a particular type of phlebotinum, that often serves as a handwave for how or why something does or doesn't work in science fiction. It's used over completely fictional phlebotinums because it's known to exist, (allowing the author to avoid charges of "pulling stuff out of thin air") but most people don't know what it can or can't do (avoiding the problems associated with "getting it wrong"). It's also a handy element for a two-part explosive: everybody knows what happens when you combine matter and antimatter.

So it looks like this article is trying to be a few tropes and a Useful Notes page. I'm tentatively down for splitting points 2 and 3 (from the OP) into their own tropes, and the information about actual antimatter could possibly go into a Useful Notes page for sci-fi writers, with Main.Antimatter being a disambig.

The name "Antimatter" is unclear as to its connection with Applied Phlebotinum, since it sounds like a UN page on the subject. I think the AP trope could be split off into something titled "Antimatter Phlebotinum" (which may be more clear than it is witty, but le shrug) or something that connotes the trope's connection to AP.

If there's enough examples of that third issue, then I think it could be made its own trope — a subtrope of Mirror Universe or Dark World (whichever is more appropriate). Antimatter Universe would be an obvious option for a name.

And I think the information about real antimatter could be useful to sci-fi writers, so the information could possibly go into its own Useful Notes/ page (Antimatter being the obvious option for a name), or the Analysis/ tab of the trope.

I'm totally on board with a Useful Notes page on the subject. The reason I question the need for a specific trope, though, is that there doesn't seem to be much that antimatter offers as a distinct type of Applied Phlebotinum. Mainly it's an Unobtainium power source, a Death Ray / Wave-Motion Gun, or a justification to make things kersplode. Every now and then someone tries to pull out the Mirror Universe made out of antimatter, but that can also be covered in the existing trope.

In other words, there doesn't seem to be any purpose for Antimatter as a trope that isn't The Same But More Specific.

edited 11th Sep '17 11:47:08 AM by Fighteer

I haven't gone through the examples or wicks, so I was just suggesting a split in the event there are enough examples to justify it. Otherwise, I agree that such examples are probably dealt with already somewhere in the trope-osphere.

I'm with Fighteer. This seems like it'd be better off as a Useful Note.

Applied Phlebotinum is a high level supertrope that I see used as pothole or in text mention but seldom as an example, which are relegated to a mass of subtropes. So the idea that The Same, but More Specific applies seems extremely off to me.

Most of the description is talking about Real Life aspects and can be split off to an Useful Notes page. Otherwise it is a good trope with an example section that isn't just "antimatter exists".

As for a split, it seems low priority to me and we have plenty of other TRS work to do.

It wouldn't be a "more specific" example of Applied Phlebotinum, but rather of Unobtainium.

Unobtainium is not usually based off a real world material, but purely fictitious. A lumping into that seems a little aggressive.

It fits the description, though, doesn't it? A pseudo-scientific substance that solves a plot need and is difficult or dangerous to obtain. Obviously, it's not pseudo-scientific in that we know that it exists, but it is pseudo-scientific in terms of the properties assigned to it by most works.

Consider Star Trek. Does antimatter have any special narrative or scientific value besides "the stuff used by starship engines to make them work"? You might as well call it it "warpdriveium", except that "antimatter" is something that the audience can be expected to vaguely recognize and thus suspend disbelief for. I'm not even sure that the use of antimatter as the explosive agent in photon torpedoes is firmly established in visual canon, but again it could be called "explodium" for all that the scientific properties of antimatter are in any way relevant.

edited 12th Sep '17 9:47:53 AM by Fighteer

Antimater in Star Trek is Minovsky Physics. It is powering warpdrive and torpedo explosions. The technical manuals go into stupid amounts of details on what antimater does.

edited 12th Sep '17 10:22:12 PM by Memers

Ah, that's right. Forgot about that trope. So yeah, is there anything that the Antimatter trope adds that can't be covered under Minovsky Physics?

Minovsky Physics is "Any instance of a fictional subatomic particle, molecule, element or form of energy which has rigidly-adhered-to but useful physical properties." The "rigidly adhered to" is important and fictional antimatter does not have to.

It may exist in real life now, when Star Trek first aired it was science bordering on Sci Fi. Like they use Antideuterium which was only discovered the year before Star Trek started airing.

It doesn't work that way in real life, it is rigidly defined to do 2 things. Deuterium and Antideuterium are channeled into Dilithium Crystals to create warp speed and it is very explosive.

edited 13th Sep '17 5:04:19 AM by Memers

for Useful Notes.

As for the examples, I doubt if any single trope will fit here, because writers aren't consistent in how they depict antimatter or its uses. Since it's a real thing, it can appear even outside of Speculative Fiction. On the other hand, it can be (and is) depicted with all sorts of improbable properties in wilder works of spec-fic. Specific examples may fit Unobtanium or Minovsky Physics or even some other trope entirely. We can't and shouldn't expect all the examples to fit in any one specific trope cleanly.

That's kind of my point: it can be included with any of a variety of tropes, and is not portrayed consistently enough to be a distinct trope in and of itself. Most of the existing examples are, "Antimatter occurs in this work", which is a classic sign of a too-narrow definition.

Someone brought up a good point about this and Minovsky Physics.

Minovsky Physics is about ridgedly defined fantasy elements like The Legend Of Heroes Trails In The Sky orbments. However Antimatter is real and most of these works give it fictional (usually ridgedly defined) properties, would those go into a sister trope to Minovsky Physics? Other things I can think of that would also fall under that would be Steam in most Steampunk works, clocks in Clock Punk and atomic power in Retrofuturism.

edited 18th Sep '17 8:00:29 AM by Memers

Minovsky Physics explicitly says that the substance or principle in question doesn't have to be fictitious, although it must be given fictitious properties.

No it doesn't. It explicitly says fictional in the first paragraph and never contradicts.

edited 18th Sep '17 8:09:57 AM by Memers

Agreed; the current description limits the Minovsky Physics definition to fictional particles. I think that is misguided and should change, but the current definition explicitly limits examples to physical laws with a fictional name.

I must have been thinking of Unobtainium, then.

I am actually thinking sister trope instead of expanding or even just a more general Real Thing New Abilities trope although avoiding the whole Artistic License thing.

Looking at the examples here only a few actually use antimatter as we know it in current science, those would probably go into another trope as well.

Just make this a Useful Notes page

1) Anitmatter engines: Using antimatter as a power source or such. Issues of storing addressed or not, blah blah blah

2) Antimatter assault: Anti matter used in a hostile manner, like a weapon. Miscalculations about annihilation outputs and such

3) Applied Phelibotinum is one of the worst trope names ever and should have been in the repair shop years before antimatter. Anyone with an inkling of what anti matter or even just matter is can reasonably guess what the page is about. You hear this supposed "better" trope title and think botox.

4) Antimatter is not unobtanium, given that it is not only a fairly well known phenomenon but indeed, obtainable. Maybe not in large enough amounts to power a light bulb, but the fact that it is another reason it isn't unobtanium, given minute amounts of it are more or less expensive and worthless.

edited 24th Dec '17 5:11:39 PM by IndirectActiveTransport