Duplicate Trope: Refugee From TV Land

Refugee from TV Land and Real-World Episode describe very much the same trope: characters are pulled out of the fictional world they inhabit and thrown into "the real world", a world in which they are fictional. Examples on the two pages largely overlap.

According to the third paragraph of Real-World Episode, there is a difference between the two:

This interpretation is not supported by the description on Refugee from TV Land and if so then a lot of the examples on the page would be misuse, but I think it can be a tropable distinction. This also means that Refugee from TV Land would become a clearer Opposite Trope to Trapped in TV Land, when characters are sucked into a Show Within a Show.

As a footnote, stats for Refugee from TV Land is 200 wicks and 304 inbounds, for Real-World Episode 142 wicks and 1,072 inbounds.

Opening and clocking.

OP's suggestion sounds reasonable to me. Unless someone raises a potential problem or objection, count me as a supporter.

So...

• Refugee from TV Land = Bob in Show X that is fictional comes from Show Y which exists inside the verse of Show X.
• Real-World Episode = Bob in "Show X" that is based on a real world comes from "Show Y" which exists inside the verse of "Show X".

am I right?

Agree with OP. There's definitely a distinction between the two, but the way that difference is worded (and the internal inconsistencies) makes it rather confusing as of right now.

It's been a while since I was on TRS...

What's the move? Should we put something in the description of both tropes explaining the difference, and then sift through the examples of both tropes to see what should be moved to the other one, and then move them as we go?

Just to make sure I understood the discussion so far, Refugee from TV Land is about a Show Within a Show, while Real-World Episode is not about a Show Within a Show, correct?

Took me awhile to see any distinction, but I get it now. Best to define it by the introduction of new characters. In both works, we start with a Work X and learn about those characters. In one trope, there is a Show Within a Show that joins the characters from Work X. In the other trope, the characters "leave" Work X and join new characters who consider them to be fictional (which seems related to Mutually Fictional).

I think they should be merged. The distinction seems insufficient to provide a narrative change.

So Refugee from TV Land can take refuge in a fantastic world while Real-World Episode specifically has them take refuge in a "real" world.

And maybe, Real-World Episode can count episodes where the settings change into that of a real world? It's not "refuging" but it plays for the same reason.

I just scanned through both tropes, and while Real-World Episode seems reasonably solid and like it sticks to the definition we've laid out, Refugee from TV Land seems to have some examples that should fall under Real-World Episode.

What I'm about to say isn't really going to resolve anything in terms of what to do with these two pages, but I'll be honest just the same: I could see us merging them ~or~ simply clarifying the description of Refugee from TV Land and doing some cleanup. Either one makes sense; the distinction is kind of subtle, but I see the distinction, at least in the Real-World Episode page.

...Question: hypothetically speaking, if we did merge the pages, how likely would it be that they'd get split later along the line we've laid out in this discussion?

The only time I feel it creates a narrative distinction is when Work X is part of a franchise. A single-episode story (or book in a series of novels, or movies in a film franchise, etc) that moves the characters into the Real World or the Show Within a Show into Work X feels different because of the attachment to the Work X characters.

See the Rocky and Bullwinkle film; characters from a much-beloved franchise escape to the "real world" and have people excited to see them. Then contrast Inkheart, where the story begins with a "real world" and the unknown characters escape their book to interact with their audience (including the author). It's the same basic plot, but it feels different because R&B are strongly associated with an established franchise. It also "feels different" when the Crimson Chin joins Timmy in his "real world" (which includes aliens, fairies, magic, and genies). Narratively, it doesn't really change; characters from a Show Within a Show move "up" one level.

Merging wouldn't harm, then?

Probably not.

The only question in my mind is whether another discussion would pop up in TRS a few years down the road, asking if we should split Real-World Episode into two different tropes again...or whatever we end up naming the merged trope.

Actually, now that I think about it, what is the new trope name going to be? I mean, Real-World Episode implies there's a reality and a fantasy, while Refugee from TV Land doesn't necessarily imply that. Would we be merging Real-World Episode into Refugee from TV Land?

Now that I'm thinking about it, Real-World Episode could be remade/retooled into whenever the story takes a realistic bent for one episode. It doesn't have to involve a "refuge"; say the episode takes place in an Alternate Universe where the world is more mundane (i.e close to our real world) or the world is temporarily warped into a more normal world for an episode.

Looking at the examples, I think Refugee from TV Land is pretty solid, but Real-World Episode is all over the place. I think we may have a case of Missing Supertrope Syndrome, and I think it's possible that Real-World Episode should be merged/changed into that supertrope.

Honestly, people seem to have all sorts of ideas of what Real-World Episode is supposed to mean. There's a lot of what I can only characterize as shoehorning.

edit: in fact, I'd like to move that the title of the thread be switched to point to the more troublesome of the two tropes, so it's the one tagged.

edited 16th Feb '17 12:13:41 PM by Xtifr

Can you describe the trope you think is missing?

Crossing The Boundaries Of Fiction? Or something like that.

That's not a description; you could mean Genre Shift, Wham Episode, Gut Punch, Setting Update, Intercontinuity Crossover, Another Dimension, or any number of other things.

Narratively speaking, the tropes can be defined so that they overlap but are distinct enough that one can be a subtrope. (Shorthand: "Character A" is a character from Earth A.)

• Refugee from TV Land = Character B appears in Earth A, in which they are fictional.
  • Trapped in TV Land = Inverse of the above. Character A appears in Earth B, which is fictional to them.
  • Real-World Episode = Subtrope. Character B appears in Earth A, which is identified to the audience as the "real" world. This means that it can be inferred Character B is fictional (or will be fictional) in Earth A.

Alternatively, Real-World Episode can be limited to a single story arc in a larger work, fulfilling the "episode" part of the trope name.

Question: Is there already a trope for "the story takes a realistic bent for one episode"?

Your "subtrope" is Earth All Along.

I'm not sure bwburke64's subtrope is Earth All Along; Earth All Along is a reveal that a setting that the audience thought wasn't Earth...really was Earth All Along. The difference I'm reading out of the subtrope is that Real-World Episode is a subtrope of Refugee from TV Land where the characters end up in a universe that's implied or stated to be our reality or something very close to it.

So...what's the move? Are we going to vote on whether Real-World Episode counts as a subtrope of Refugee from TV Land? And if the vote passes, do we start fixing up both pages so that they fit the new definitions?

As the current definitions show, RWE would be a subtrope for Refugee from TV Land.

Although, like I've said several posts back, I want RWE's description to be broadened a bit.

I re-read that post...shoot, Real-World Episode, in that case, wouldn't need to be a subtrope of Refugee from TV Land in every case if we go by your definition. It's a good definition...

Question to help me wrap my mind around your idea: would the Equestria Girls movie qualify as a Real-World Episode as far as the Friendship is Magic universe goes, or does the fact that there are still fantasy elements (a talking dog, a magic portal) in this high school AU mean that it doesn't quite qualify?