Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse

Screenjunkies just raved about the movie.

Guess after Emoji Movie, Sony Animation could've only go up

It's not just the Emoji movie. Sony has a terrible reputation between animation fans. Not for the quality of their animation, mind you, it's usually serviceable at the very least, but for the kind of stories and characters they present. I have said all along that this movie could solve two problems at once for them: What to do with their animation studio and how to do their own thing with the Spider-Man characters without directly competing with the MCU.

It seems like Sony should just give their stuff to right creators. But even then they screw it up.

Sony actually does do that. Like they left Greg Weismann alone for Spectacular Spider-Man. He had little oversight and it was the Disney/Marvel buyout that ended that. I mean it's one of the great ironies. Fanboys talk about how MCU will give you a faithful Spidey but the most faithful take ever was made by Sony and shutdown by Disney/Marvel. And Sony's producers like Amy Pascal and others, while their reputation took a beating after the email hacks, they do have some real vision for the character. Like their long-form ideas are still being repurposed. They planned Emma Stone to return in ASM-3 as a clone with Spider-Powers and that idea ended up inspiring Spider-Gwen and now here she is in the cartoon.

Even Homecoming was largely done by Sony. Kevin Feige noted that Tom Holland was their choice, as was the idea of Vulture's motivation and reimagining. I mean it falls into the pattern of every Spider-Man movie villain knowing Peter's secret identity and having some connection to him, a fact that was originally Norman's jam but Sony gave it to characters like Octopus who weren't otherwise connected at the time. And obviously the MCU Spider-Man will eventually face the Sinister Six which is based on their plans for ASM.

Sony animation did always a pretty good job with spiderman. It's everything else they tended to struggle with in the past.

Plus people have regarded Spider-Man 2 as the best comicbook movie of all time so they still got that

I tend to prefer Spider-Man over 2 myself and I think The Dark Knight and Logan are the films considered best comic book movie ever these days (I'd also toss Guardians of the Galaxy and its sequel in the sweepstakes). But yeah, the first two Raimi films are still the best Spider-Man films, and even if they made a lot of changes to the characters and lore, it's still the most compelling take on Spider-Man.

Sam Raimi's trilogy also inspired Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight films (like Joker in TDK is basically quite similar to the Goblin in 1, in that there's no Evil Plan, he just "does things" and you have a more romantic Bruce Wayne) and the success of those films unleashed a floodgates for a number of Marvel movies. Like the Thomas Jane Punisher, the Ben Affleck Daredevil (which I'll admit I have a guilty pleasure for, at least the director's cut), the Tim Story Fantastic Four and it also got the capital for the MCU which led to Iron Man and others.

So in a weird way Sony created the MCU...

This film has been getting rave reviews.

I was planning on seeing this anyways for the visuals but I'm glad it apparently turned out to be good as well.

I'm getting even more excited for this movie. I want it in front of my eyeballs right now dammit!

I mean, yeah, they let Genndy Tartakovsky go nuts with Hotel Transylvania 3 and that worked well (the best rated HT movie IINM). On the other hand, well...

(Sadly glances towards the gravestone for Genndy Tartakovsky's Popeye movie.)

On the one hand, the scenario of Emma Stone coming back as a clone with Spider-Powers most saw as ridiculous. On the other hand, everybody loves Spider-Gwen, so fair point.

Literally didn't know about those bolded bits until now. I praised Homecoming thinking it was mostly Marvel Studios finally indulging with Spider-Man, but maybe Sony deserves some praise here?

Yes, that's the ideal outcome. (Is praying Sony doesn't suddenly get greedy with Spidey after Far From Home.)

Finally, I figured Into the Spider-Verse would be good, but 100% on Rotten Tomatoes? Dang...

I guess the question is: after Into the Spider-Verse comes and goes, what will Sony do with their animation studio?

If the hiring of Voltron’s EP’s is any indication, make a separate but parallel animated Spider franchise alongside the MCU’s live action take.

It's even on the trivia page for Spider-Man: Homecoming

Amy Pascal, and the screenwriters admitted that they drew on Akira Kurosawa's High&Low for influences on how to re-imagine the Vulture, and Kevin Feige actually saw the film for the first time during their collaboration:

Kevin Feige: "I will tell you, I haven’t brought it up before, is we wanted a ground level villain. We wanted a villain to parallel Peter’s journey of what’s it like to be a normal person in this world. And an example that Amy [Pascal] used and it became a touch point...was a film by Akira Kurosawa called High&Low, which I hadn’t seen before. And that we watched a number of times. And other than just exposing me to a great movie I’d never seen, which I appreciated...it was a great touch point of inspiration from Amy about somebody who looks up at a wealthy person almost in a tower every day in their life and feels the need to respond to that in a villainous way.”

And Sony are all-in for the MCU Spider-Man trilogy. They are contracted for three films and I can imagine that given the sweetheart deal that Disney Marvel arranged with them its not something you back out of without risks and they need to rebuild their image after those hacks. They keep most of the profits for the solo Spider-Man movies (Disneymarvel makes Spidey-money on the Civil War, Infinity War and other crossovers). Tom Holland's casting was Sony's choice and Feige wasn't okay with it at first but then the Russos okayed it and Feige accepted.

But after the third MCU Spider-Man film who knows. I mean the whole point of Spider-Man in the MCU is that he crosses over and mashes into the world of these other heroes. So far it's only been Iron Man. But canonically Peter's tussled with the Hulk as a teenager and we haven't seen that yet and given how Avengers 4 might or might not play out, we might not see it. On the plus side now that they have Fox and Fantastic Four and X-Men, you can see Peter hang out with Johnny Storm, date Kitty Pryde, and fight the Juggernaut like he did in the comics. Spider-Man also partnered with Daredevil but that was the adult post-college Spidey and teen Spidey and an adult Daredevil would have a different dynamic (as Ultimate Marvel makes clear) and the Netflix crossing into the movies would be hard. So who knows, maybe Sony will feel that Disney aren't using Spider-Man properly and call it quits after the end of the contract. And then Tom Holland goes over into the Sony Spider Universe, I mean contractually he's bound to them, they were the ones who cast him first so that's probably what will keep them there...

Well it depends on how they did it. See, Gwen coming back as a clone was done pretty well in the comics during Gerry Conway's original Clone Saga between 143-149 ASM. Conway was ordered by Stan Lee to bring Gwen Back from the Dead mostly because fanboys were bothering him about why Spidey's girlfriend had to die and he didn't like that kind of attention where he would have to defend something controversial like saying a character death was good for a story. Conway's original saga was about the fact that Peter had moved on to a new and more fulfilling relationship with MJ and when Gwen comes back (and before Peter knows she's a clone) he's troubled with the fact that he no longer feels about her the same way he did when she was alive. Conway made Miles Warren the Jackal as an embodiment of fan demand for Gwen's death, making the guy who wants her back into a creepy stalking obsessive old man and lecherous professor...just to make it clear that why Gwen should never come back and why MJ is so much better you guys.

The original plans for ASM-3 is that Peter is the one who clones Gwen and so on. MJ would be introduced in the third film but since the Garfield movies took all her unique characteristics and gave it to Gwen (Peter's confidant, knows and loves both Peter and Spidey, willing to date a superhero despite fears and worries) there's no way she would have worked in that set-up. So Peter in essence becomes Miles Warren the Jackal...the obsessive guy fixated on the past and can't move on. Now canonically Peter has flirted with Mad Scientist stuff, like the many arms thing he pulled towards ASM-100 when Morbius came in. He created a potion that was supposed to remove his powers and ended up giving him extra arms instead. And in Ultimate Clone Saga, one of Peter's decaying clones gives MJ the Goblin formula so she could protect herself...which I don't know I can kind of see a darker and more edgy Peter like Andrew Garfield's character doing it. Not classic and Ultimate Peter, and obviously it's against the spirit of Conway's first Clone Saga which is that only morons fixated on the past do creepy stuff like that.

In either case, it's probably for the best they didn't go there...but the idea of cloning Gwen and so on isn't stupid by itself. It was done in the comics and done well. The fact that later writers screwed it up and Sony did it too doesn't make it bad.

Named best animated movie by the New York Films Critic Circle[1]

The voice of the Peter from Miles’ dimension has been revealed[1]

Good call...

Oscar Isaac is in the movie as the voice of Spider-Man 2099/Miguel O'Hara[1]

Oh shit now that's another pleasant surprise right there.

Called it: Not gonna repost because of contextual spoilers but click to find out...

Again....... not familiar with AU Spider-Men = don't know who that is.

That's not so bad. I mean the movie is made for people who are unfamiliar with this stuff, and even if you don't know, I am sure you'll get the emotion and wit behind it. Besides, it's Oscar Isaac aka Poe Dameron, aka Llewellyn Davis.

He’s the Spider-Man from the year 2099 from Marvel’s 2099 line which is basically Marvel’s attempt at making a Cyberpunk future with its characters given a new Cyberpunk look over a decade ago. Full name Miguel O’Hara, Spider-Man 2099 was the most popular comic from that line to the point the character still gets regular appearances in modern material despite the line ending a long time ago to the point he’s gotten several ongoings & his own video-game in recent years.

One reason why he’s so popular is because he’s got an incredibly dope costume.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 30th 2018 at 12:18:02 PM

Spider-Man is the most-spun-off, adapted, and "versioned" Marvel superhero, which immediately shut me off from getting into even the original version for fear of getting totally lost and being criticized for it. So maybe this movie will change my mind.

Well they are generally pretty easy to get into depending on here you are at.

Pretty sure you don’t need to be overtly familiar with the franchise to read the two Noir mini-series or the Ultimate series.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 30th 2018 at 1:52:52 AM