YMMV.My Little Pony Equestria Girls

• Fanon: A large portion of the fandom considers it as good as canon that Sunset was being groomed to be a princess by Celestia in the same manner as Twilight, and some go so far as to suggest Celestia was preparing Sunset to receive the Element of Magic. Related to this, it's also commonly accepted that Sunset knew of Twilight during their tutelage with Celestia but Twilight didn't know her, and that jealousy of Twilight played a role in Sunset's StartOfDarkness. Details on these points vary, but the general ideas are ''very'' common in fan works.[[note]]While the canon says nothing about Sunset knowing about the Element of Magic or Twilight during her time with Celestia, this Fanon would resolve several {{plot hole}}s about Sunset backstory, personality, and motivations, which is why it's so widely accepted.[[/note]]

The first part I agree is valid, I'm not sure about the second. I recall it being popular at first, but it seems to have petered out (save for outright AU works) by the time of Rainbow Rocks. (Maybe because the issues with that, being Ron the Death Eater of Celestia to replace/kick out Sunset before she fell to villainy/there no way Twilight wouldn't have known Sunset if she hadn't been removed as Celestia's student prior, are no longer worth it since Sunset's redemption makes her compelling enough to no longer need such fixes.) The Fall of Sunset Shimmer comic which Jossed this seems to have been disproportionally accepted by fans, especially by the comics standards.

Should it be cut? Keep but note it's become largely outdated? Or is it still a widespread thing?

Well, as far as the main show goes, I'd say this is heavily implied to be canon, as Sunset is explicitly set up as an evil counterpart to Twilight (the Student Who Failed Celestia).

So should we cut the first part as too heavily implied in canon to count as fanon?

s for the second part, should it be cut for the reasons I've noted (no longer widespread out of AU fics), note it's no longer widespread, kept as still widespread?

On the subject of no longer accepted fanon, from SeinfeldIsUnfunny.Fan Works:

• In the early days of the fandom many fans liked the ideal that Princess Celestia was really evil or at least a Knight Templar. However soon after, fanfics about her being a Hero with Bad Publicity or The Woman Wearing The Queenly Mask woobie started showing up. Now Celestia would be no worse than a Harmless Troll.

I deleted this as SIU misuse (about originality and no longer seeming so by modern standards), but left me questions: 1. Why and when did the fandom shift away from such? 2. Is there anything such a shift can go under?

I think it shifted because we got to see more of her character, and also Celestia's characterization softened considerably, from a rather aloof and distant goddess like figure to a more relatable ruler who was more of a normal silly pony under all the regal bearing.

Also, I don't think the "Celestia is evil" thing ever had any bearing on canon beyond minor implications being blown up way out of proportion.

Post of the Week #3504

Posted by Applelight Limited on Mon, 19th Aug '13 3:08:03 PM - Post #392076 in the old thread

I think it shifted because we got to see more of her character, and also Celestia's characterization softened considerably, from a rather aloof and distant goddess like figure to a more relatable ruler who was more of a normal silly pony under all the regal bearing.

There might also be a fashion cycle element to it. Once a particular concept becomes too widespread in fanworks, people are likely to start parodying it or subverting it rather than playing it straight.

Yeah, like how when the show first started we had all of those really shitty Grimdark fics like "Cupcakes" and "Sweet Apple Massacre" and then those fell out of fashion.

So would that make it “grimderp”?

They fell out of fashion because everyone started trying to cash in. Nothing ever got as famous as Cupcakes, but that didn't stop people from trying to write the next shock fic like "Sweet Apple Massacre", "Rainbow Factory," or more on the wtf side of things, "Pattycakes."

Same thing happened to the first-person shooter video game genre in the late 2000s after Call of Duty succeeded. Not any game where you are shooting stuff in a first-person POV, but rather, this style of game that was popular in the late Noughties. Faceless mooks, probably from an evil dictatorship, you mow through them with your military buddies, Real Is Brown, etc. etc. COD had depth, most other games didn't. The next big thing was the open-world genre after the success of Skyrim, then came Battle Royales after Fortnite, and so on. Before this, it was every universe getting an MMO after the success of WOW, and it ran concurrently, considering DC Universe Online took off not long before SWTOR did as well.

Something gets successful, the copycats come in, the copycats oversaturate the market, people nope out, genre dies off, move on to the next big thing.

Its because Cupcakes was a troll fic and troll fics are fairly memy,and memes have a short lifespan

Well, that and they rely on newness and surprise. Once the shock value had worn off, so did most of their appeal.

Rainbow Factory at least spawned some banger music.

Edited by GNinja on May 9th 2022 at 11:55:48 AM

4chan were the ones who first rocketed the show to popularity. Is anybody really surprised the early days were full of edgelord-y stuff?

Once the show became popular, the 4channers started to get bored and leave, and the Mr. Enter types started to come in. By "Mr. Enter types", I mean the oversensitive people who can't control their emotions about a cartoon for 10-year olds, and launch terrible analysis channels about it. So as they came in, they caused a shift in Celestia's perception away from a trolly tyrant and serial molester towards an earnest ruler people just don't understand. I don't think it's a secret many of these people are on the spectrum, and having a supreme leader/saintly mother figure with a rich inner life behind her stoic facade probably appealed to them.

Steven Universe started airing around this time, and that overtly catered to people with "big mommy" fetishes, as opposed to a professional children's show with actual screenwriters like FIM. So I think the "progressive" side of the fandom responsible for disgusting Celestia porn flocked to that instead. There was still some, but I like to think of Steven Universe as a grease filter that kept it from getting worse. Or maybe my efforts to avoid any and all My Little Pony-related porn were just more successful than I realized.

On the other side (of the aisle), it seemed like there was an upswing in conservative bronies at the same time. When Glenn Beck mentioned the show, the comments section of Equestria Daily was shockingly full of support for him — I say "shockingly" since FIM had been a whipping boy for Fox News when it first started. So I suspect the "Hero with Bad Publicity" angle may be lingering "the lamestream media did Dubya wrong!" resentment. But I'm not sure how accurate that is, since whenever I read somebody's social media bio and see "Proud autistic conservative brony!" I put my hands up and slowly back away.

Since I tried to avoid interacting with all these people as much as possible, all I have is secondhand speculation.

Edited by WarriorsGate on May 9th 2022 at 6:57:33 AM

...wha?

Uh...what does that have to do with autism?

Edited by Diana1969 on May 9th 2022 at 11:58:33 PM

Are you implying that SU didn't have professional writers!? Like the scripts were storyboard driven but that doesn't mean the crew didn't know what they were doing.

Isn't that what people with autism/Asperger's always say? That they're wearing a mask and nobody knows how they feel on the inside?

I watched 40-50 episodes of Steven Universe (pirated on Youtube, obviously) trying to understand what people like about that show, and...I disagree.

Edited by WarriorsGate on May 9th 2022 at 7:15:53 AM

No?

Okay? They're still professional writers. That's literally their profession.

Edited by Diana1969 on May 10th 2022 at 12:24:16 AM

Well, um, I'm glad this thread's picking up again. Yo, Warrior, saw your comments in the My Little Pony: Generation 5 thread, nice to hear a previously unconsidered perspective, glad to see a new face around here, hope you'll stay around.

Um, also, I'm going to second Diana's comment because, uh, disclosure here, I have been diagnosed with Autism and, no, I do not feel that way, myself.

Having a social mask is just human interaction, you act differently around different people like your boss, your parents, your forum-mates, etc. Being disconnected from other people is isolation or disconnection, it's what 9/10 teenagers feel.

Edit: I should watch Steven Universe some day. Like, even just for a week before moving to something else.

Edited by fredhot16 on May 9th 2022 at 7:31:55 AM

I know that wearing a social mask is a basic part of human interaction, but that doesn't stop autism and other health blogs from publishing stories about autistic people having to "mask" themselves:

https://www.healthline.com/health/autism/autism-masking

Are you saying all these quasi-clickbaity articles are lying about the autistic experience? I'm honestly curious to know.

You are technically correct, but I meant I disagree they know what they are doing.

Edited by WarriorsGate on May 9th 2022 at 7:41:18 AM

I mean, I guess it depends on your experience. I have diagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, and I wouldn't say I have a problem with wearing a societal mask. If anything, my problem is the opposite. I find it incredibly hard NOT to wear my heart on my sleeve, and my mind either can't comprehend or has little interest in engaging with the subtle minutae of human interactions.

Like just because you don't like the show, that doesn't mean the people who made it are incompetent. It just means the show isn't for you.

I still disagree, in that I found the writing technically inept. But it was 7-8 years ago and I'm not watching it again to gather supporting evidence, so I'll refrain from criticizing it further.

In any case, your comments about it " overtly catering to people with 'big mommy' fetishes" still felt way out of line, ditto for your comments about autistic people (as someone with it myself) wanting a "saintly mother figure". There's plenty to critique with that early edgelord side of the bronies, and the overly-analytical youtubers that came in the middle era, but that analysis just didn't sit right with me.

Edited by harryhenry on May 9th 2022 at 8:46:41 AM

Well, Mr. Enter also has self-admitted autism, and he spends his days screaming about cartoons for children. It's not my fault overemotional ranting is associated with people who profess to be autistic, nor is it my fault the media keeps pumping out articles saying autistic people will have a meltdown if society forces them to rein in their emotions sometimes, making them sound like children throwing a temper tantrum.

Also, the fact that Steven Universe aired on a children's network at all felt way out of line, but it did.

Edited by WarriorsGate on May 9th 2022 at 9:01:39 AM

Lily Orchard is one of those early Brony analyst morons and not only does she *not* have autism, but she's made very insulting comments towards people with autism while acting like she knows better than them.

Chalking all this shit up to autism is ableist as fuck.