Portrayal of the mentally ill in comics

It has come to my attention that the portrayal of the mentally ill in comics is decidedly lacking. In addition to Insane Equals Violent and Insanity Defense, the most well-known psychiatric hospital, Arkham Asylum, is little more than a Bedlam House. Please see the blog Law And The Multiverse and their posts on the definition of "insanity" for details.

Anyhow, in light of these details, I was wondering if there were any characters in comic books that suffer from specific mental illnesses. I know that Norman Osborn suffers from some kind of combination of bipolar disorder and Disassosiative Identity Disorder, Two-Face also suffers from the latter, and an incarnation of Starman suffers from Schizophrenia. What I'm asking is if these portrayals are at all accurate, and if not, what could be done to fix them. I would start with Arkham being put under the management of someone who actually understands proper psychotherapy. Monsters like The Joker do not belong in a psychiatric hospital. They belong in a regular jail, and in the real world would have gotten the chair years ago (though if Gotham City is in Joisey, the death penalty wouldn't be an option). Also, I'd change Arkham's name to "Elizabeth Arkham Memorial Psychiatric Hospital." That would do it.

X

edited 23rd May '13 9:52:28 AM by XRay

Care to critique my villain's prison escape plan?

The first step is to stop using "insane" as a synonym for evil. I would say 95% of people who are "insane" in fiction in general are really just assholes. "You're insane!" is the standard go-to accusation of anyone who has any evil intentions whatsoever.

Sometimes, villains have really good motivations. Other times, people are just dicks.

edited 23rd May '13 9:52:42 AM by TobiasDrake

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To which they accused (often) end up saying, "Thank you."

Embroiled in slave rebellion, I escaped crucifixion simply by declaring 'I am Vito', everyone else apparently being called 'Spartacus'.

Pretty sure "insane" is not equivalent with mentally ill anyway.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins

Real life serious mental disorders would make most villains unable to effectively commit wide scale crimes in an universe populated by superpowered defenders.

I'd say the Joker is effectively mentally incompetent, in the legal sense. It's important to note his condition is clearly a comic book made impossible sort of insanity, but it's still clear he is not mentally sound at all.

Regardless, the OP reeks to me of Political Correctness Gone Mad. Yes, I realize the irony.

I'd change Arkham's name to "Elizabeth Arkham Memorial Psychiatric Hospital."

It didn't work that well in The Dark Knight Returns.

edited 23rd May '13 7:23:20 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

Arkham Asylum isn't supposed to be an effective psychiatric hospital (just as Gotham isn't normally supposed to be a well-functioning city), so the antiquated name fits.

In an alternate universe where Bruce Wayne focused his great intellect & resources on rehabilitating Gotham rather than punching muggers, a name change would work (as part of a wider raft of reforms to the city and the hospital).

Swamp Thing has one character who underwent long-term abuse at the hands of her husband (including him lying to her that people were still after them), and lost a lot of self-confidence & generally became a shell of her former (intrepid journalist and successful author) self. It was quite horrible to read, and is a realistic reaction to the circumstances she was in (though of course, different people would react in different ways). Of course, that same run also had autism being cause by childhood trauma, so...

Most of the time, the characters shouting 'You're insane!' aren't delivering an informed psychiatric diagnosis - similar to how 'You bastard!' doesn't mean that they think the villain was born out of wedlock.

I agree with the general point, though - the Joker couldn't use the Insanity defence in a trial, since he knows right from wrong and chooses to do evil shit for his own amusement.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

It Depends On The Writer, but overall, while Joker seems to be able to tell what others consider 'good' from 'bad' and 'evil', he 'honestly' thinks those distinctions are ultimately pointless and absurd, and nothing but people deluding themselves into thinking moral standards exist.

Humpty Dumpty, on the other hand, is a pretty clear case of not being mentally competent. He really didn't understand the consequences of his actions, including dismembering his abusive grandmother and trying to stitch her back together to "fix" her.

The Joker doesn't act like someone who merely thinks those distinctions don't exist. He deliberately provokes, antagonizes, and outright murders people. Even if you try to say that he behaves the way he does because he doesn't believe in morality, he's still a murderous troll who devoted his life to hurting people.

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Unless you go with the interpretation that the Joker is aware he's a comic book character and isn't in control of his own actions, since he can only do what the writers make him do.

edited 24th May '13 10:44:21 AM by RavenWilder

Yeah, I think the whole idea of the Joker being in Arkham is terribly outdated. The best thing the Joker qualifies as is a sociopath, a "reflex machine that is capable of perfectly mimicking the behavior of a regular human being while often imagining itself outside, apart from, or above humanity." It's not that he doesn't understand right and wrong, it's that he doesn't care about them. He is not mentally ill in the actual legal or medical sense at all, and I seriously doubt any credible psychiatrist today would label him as such.

Batman's villains were labelled "insane" in a less enlightened age, because "insane" was viewed as scary. Hell, Arkham Asylum is influenced by HP Lovecraft. It'd be better for DC if they just stepped away from that way of categorizing Bat-Villains.

True. Some bat-villains can still be categorized as 'insane', (like Harvey Dent, or the Mad Hatter,) but others like Mr.Freeze, Scarecrow, Riddler, etc.; they may have problems, but not to the point where they should be considered 'insane.' Same goes for the Joker, who should have been put in the chair after his very first story back in The Golden Age.

Yeah...this is a pet peeve of mine. It's not just the characters that do it. Fans often enough use, "(S)He's insane" as a motivation during discussions of a character's behaviour. Why did Character X hire ninjas to kidnap the prime minster? Why is he trying to use the MacGuffin to reshape the world in his image? What reasons does he have to assassinate the hero's girlfriend? Well, because he's insane, obviously! No further analysis needed!

What really upsets me is when it feels like the writers themselves are trying to use this, and then it just feels like a crutch. The Joker kidnaps Gordon and leads Batman on a sky chase through Gotham in a blimp shaped like a middle finger, then crashes it into an elementary school and flees the scene. Why did he do this? Well, the Joker's insane. No further motivation needed.

Mental illness is not a motivation. Even when it's a legitimate description, it's still only a contributing factor, not a motivation in and of itself. If Norman Osborn gases a building full of Jews because the Green Goblin convinced him that Jews are plotting to eat his soul, his motivation is that he doesn't want his soul to be eaten, not just "because he's insane".

edited 25th May '13 8:35:55 AM by TobiasDrake

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@imadinosaur: Bruce Wayne actually does use his resources to help Gotham City, through charities such as the Thomas & Martha Wayne Foundation, as well as through support of Leslie Thompkins' clinics. He recently embarked on a project to save Gotham from urban decay, albeit as an excuse to install Bat-bunkers throughout the city.

My point is, Batman's motivation for fighting crime is exactly that- wanting to actually fight crime. There are a lot of better things he could do through his resources, such as running for mayor and using his boatloads of money to help fix up Gotham, including restructuring Arkham and Blackgate. This would also be easy for him to do, and what he by all rights should do, seeing as how he's a board member at Arkham. He should also probably have a chat with Commissioner Gordon about the "insanity" of his foes.

X

Care to critique my villain's prison escape plan?

Well, according to some writers, (like Alan Moore,) Batman himself is insane. Think about it; he refused — under any circumstances — to kill, or — more importantly — use a gun. He dressed up like a big bat in part due to seeing a bunch of bats. And of course, he wants to literally fight crime, instead of fighting it using potentially longer-lasting and more effective methods with his money. And so-on and so-forth. Wayne was so affected by the sight of seeing the death's of his parents that this affected him all the way to this adult life, and gave him a bevy of psychological issues that he hasn't really worked out, though thankfully, these same issues have turned him into a crusading kill-free Dark Knight of justice, so at least he's on the good guy's side.

...Or at least that's one interpretation of him.

edited 25th May '13 1:26:13 PM by kkhohoho

I agree with @Tobias Drake that mental illness is rarely more than a Hand Wave for whatever evil plot the character has to be written into. Any semblance of an actual mental condition is coincidental.

Personally, I consider it an excuse for Bad Writing that has stopped holding water nowadays, even for legacy characters. It's just far too easy to abuse, with the writer not having to put any effort in a valid motivation, purpose, or even a coherent methodology - which, ironically, are ingrained in a lot of mental conditions.

Conversely, heroes are often espousing a no-kill code that's morally bordering on Black-and-White Insanity, specifically so that the writers won't have to worry about not killing the villains - the same kind of crutch but on the other leg.

All in all, it's just a way of internally justifying the external constraints of the genre - that there have to be clear cut villains, yet the heroes can't put them down for good. Fittingly put by an actual self-admitted insane superhero - The Tick: "I don't want to stop crime. I just want to fight it." Thing is, he was playing it for laughs. When played for drama, it just doesn't work.

edited 25th May '13 1:02:51 PM by indiana404

This is why a majority of heroes (both NPC and regular) in my gaming group's Mutants And Masterminds setting have a variation on it: Thou Shalt Not Kill unless there's no other possible option.

Embroiled in slave rebellion, I escaped crucifixion simply by declaring 'I am Vito', everyone else apparently being called 'Spartacus'.

The Joker is insane in-universe, it's just his insanity doesn't match to any real world mental illness. He's been temporarily 'cured' several times (by Martian Manhunter's mind tampering streamlining his flow of consciousness, not rewriting his personality, mind. Or by bathing in the Lazarus Pits, which usually drive people insane). When others have gone into his mind (because comics) it's clearly portrayed as a completely chaotic and nonsensical place. At times he's given signs of honestly thinking he and Batman are the only two 'real people' in the world, and there are things like his 'transformation' mental fit in Grant Morrison's The Clown at Midnight, which clearly isn't anything a sane person would do.

@Napoleon Da Cheese: I think that the Joker may indeed suffer from delusions of graduer, a paranoid outlook, and psychopathy, but I know for a fact that he does not not know that what he does is bad. He understands that blowing up buildings is blowing up buildings.

On the other hand, Joker may be faking genuine insanity or incompetence so that he doesn't go to a place where he's likely to get shanked, though good 'old Mr. J may or may not be able to handle himself. Either way, a mental hospital is no place for him, especially one which is probably in no way board approved.

X

Care to critique my villain's prison escape plan?

The time he was sent to regular prison in Devil's Advocate, he nearly killed the biggest and meanest prisoner in Blackgate when he tried messing with him, but I guess a group effort should do him.

Anyway, he seems actually completely dominated by his mental illness, to the point he's a completely different person whenever he's 'cured' for short whiles. Given how derivates from the same chemicals that changed him have been known to completely alter the personalities of those affected by them, also making them into dangerous psychos (like in Last Laugh), I'd say his mania is too Comic-Booky to be qualified by real world standards.

Actually, not killing is entirely sensible. Superheroes generally have no legal authority to kill, and doing so would make them guilty of first-degree manslaughter or third-degree murder. Plus, if they did kill someone and it later turned out that person was innocent, they'd be in even deeper shit.

Now, if a superhero is specifically operating under the direct direction of the police or government, then they might plausibly have permission to kill. However, for a private civilian operating as an unlicensed vigilante, taking it upon themselves to administer the death penalty on the spot is several different kinds of illegal, immoral, and dangerous.

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Of course, they might be excused if it was the only way of stopping someone from killing someone else. Self-defence wouldn't work, because the hero actually sought out the villain, but if the villain is about to kill someone, and the hero kills the villain in defence of the potential victim, it's feasible they wouldn't be convicted. They'd still have to go to court, of course, which no superhero would do.

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The "heroes don't kill because that would be a crime" thing falls apart given that assault and battery are still violent crimes. While there are definitely different levels of force that different circumstances warranty, there are very few situations in which killing somebody would warrant prison time, while simply beating them into a bloody coma gets you a medal and a handshake from the mayor. If the law is willing to overlook the fact that you're a violent vigilante who spends his days routinely attacking citizens, you're probably fine. Conversely, if they're not okay with it, then killing your enemies doesn't make that much of a difference; hell, if the law already thinks you're a dangerous menace, then you might as well. The main reason police routinely wind up chasing after Spider-Man but deliberately look the other way for the Punisher is because the latter actually gets results, while Spider-Man's still fighting the same guys he was fighting fifteen years ago.

Superior got commended for killing Massacre for exactly the same reasons; because now he is dead, and nobody else will ever have to die for Spider-Man's unwillingness to take the life of someone as thoroughly amoral and monstrous as him. Conversely, Superior brutally beat Screwball into a bloody mess, which was very much not okay. And then there's the fact that the only reason Silver Sable and Peter Parker are both dead now is because Peter was never willing to put down Doc Ock, despite giving him an infinite number of second chances and the latter just coming back more monstrous every time.

The punishment needs to fit the crime. Killing everyone is not okay. But when you refrain from using lethal force in situations where it is much deserved, terrible things can happen.

edited 25th May '13 9:39:26 PM by TobiasDrake

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But the assault is to subdue a criminal in the act of committing a crime. If you tackle a purse-snatcher, you're not going to be arrested, even though it's technically assault. Well, if you use excessive force to beat the shit out of the purse snatcher, then you'll get arrested. Superheroes, generally, use necessary force in stopping criminals. A purse snatcher will get slapped around, while the Scorpion will get hit by a car. Because the Scorpion is a little harder to stop than a purse snatcher.

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Again, this doesn't hold water when Batman routinely beats up and subjects people to his brand of High-Altitude Interrogation. That's not stopping an act of crime, that's coercion and torture. Very, very illegal torture. So, when you put yourself above judge and jury with such an act, you might as well play the executioner.

Moreover, there are occasions of him deliberately saving the Joker's life, when simple inaction would mean the clown honking his last horn. Now that's just sick. Knowingly keeping a mass murderer alive, when the only containment option is an officially admitted Cardboard Prison makes you nothing short of an accomplice, with no moral high-ground to stand on.

Speaking of the police looking the other way for the Punisher, I love the moment in the Hitman/JLA crossover when Batman leaves prolific assassin Tommy Monaghan to the police... who promptly take him to his favorite bar, since he actually deals permanently with criminals, and they like him for it more than they do the Justice Leaguers.

All in all, if there's any specifically identifiable mental illness in comics, we should look for it on the cape side of the fence.

edited 26th May '13 12:35:42 AM by indiana404