Unclear Description: Electric Instant Gratification

Cannot figure out that this means. Possibly:

• 1. "Something good happens when you get shocked". The name and related tropes contradict that.
• 2. "Torture via electricity." If the result is good, then it's unlikely to be torture. Also article is too narrow for this.

What is it?

It is listed as a subtrope to a trope about forcing people to experience genuine happiness against their will...

This post was thumped by the Codfish in a Derby Hat

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

I thought it was perfectly clear that the trope is about direct electrical stimulation of the brain's pleasure centers, whether on purpose or accidentally. There's some need for a cleanup with unrelated "too kinky to torture" examples.

From what I can see, it's basically "any time electricity is used to stimulate someone's pleasure centers", whether it's intentional or not doesn't seem to matter, hence why it overlaps with Too Kinky to Torture. Someone could attempt Electric Torture and end up running into this trope instead.

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Right, there's overlap, but somebody enjoying electroshock doesn't mean it's automatically this trope. For example, the Futurama example has Leela associating the shock collar with the pleasure of inflicting violence, so it's not this trope.

The description could use some clarification, but I think Escher nailed it. We do need to get rid of the examples that don't fit, like the Futurama one.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

If there's electrocution, and they get off of the pain it causes, I think it's a different trope from getting off because it stimulates their pleasure directly. Otherwise it's just electrocution and pleasure, with no specific relation to each other.

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Right, someone who gets turn on by Electric Torture probably gets turned on by other forms of torture, so that's Too Kinky to Torture, and not this trope.

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Does that mean all anime examples are wrong? As far as I know, they're all about masochism.

Personally I think Too Kinky to Torture should be removed from the description. While there may be an overlap, having it on the page encourages misuse.

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I agree. This trope isn't Too Kinky to Torture.

I guess the question is, do we want to make Too Kinky to Torture a supertrope and have different subtropes relating to specific methods, or just roll the "Alice likes it when Bob shocks her" examples from EIG into TK 2 T?

edited 4th Oct '12 10:10:58 AM by Willbyr

Too Kinky to Torture is not a supertrope of Electric Instant Gratification. It's not about torture. It's about stimulating the brain positively.

We can perhaps split off a subtrope that way, though.

edited 4th Oct '12 11:00:19 AM by AnotherDuck

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Is the TRS page link not showing up on the trope page for anyone else?

To me, it's an Image Pickin' thread.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Well, there is an IP thread too, but that's all I see on the page itself. No link to this thread.

edited 9th Oct '12 10:42:56 AM by AnotherDuck

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I've fixed it.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Tick-tock.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

I think the description could use a little expansion/clarification, and obviously we need to remove bad examples, but that's really all this seems to require.

eta: how about this:

---

Electricity is versatile stuff. While it can burn you, it can also be used to stimulate nerve cells to give feelings of actual pleasure. One common form, especially in Science Fiction, involves using small amounts of current applied directly to the "pleasure centers" of the brain.

The concept of the "pleasure center" was based on research on rats done in the 1950's, and those studies have been partially discredited since, but there is still some Truth in Television here. Scientists developed an orgasm device for women by accident when the doctor inserted a spinal cord electrode he was using to relieve the woman's chronic pain into the wrong place and got an unexpected reaction. Although further tests showed that less than 2% of women would actually get that effect from it.

Although the effect may happen by accident, this is not the same as Too Kinky to Torture. This is about electricity causing actual, physical pleasure, not just pain that someone happens to enjoy.

May be used to try to brainwash someone, as direct brain stimulation was found to be extremely addictive—at least in rats. In such cases, it's closely related to Getting Smilies Painted on Your Soul.

edited 13th Dec '12 7:09:23 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Bump. Yes or no on the new description? Anyone have an opinion? I don't want to act unilaterally here, but the current description really does seem too vague and easy to misinterpret.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Good to mention that it is specifically a science fiction trope. It is more specific than Smilies on the Soul—it is specifically about doing so by using electrical stimulation of part of the brain. (And as the description notes—this is documented to work on rats in real life. On humans, not so reliably.)

Might want to mention Science Marches On—this used to be a lot more plausible than it is now (and I believe isn't totally discredited yet, but I Am Not A Neurologist.)

^I'd rather not say it's specifically an "[Genre] Trope".

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Yeah, me neither.

I also don't want to limit it to direct-to-the-brain stimulation, so I tried to leave that part open. Don't know how well I did.

eta: I did make a pothole to Science Marches On.

edited 13th Dec '12 7:10:02 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Bump. Last call for comments on my draft. If nobody objects or raises any issues by tomorrow, I'll go ahead and install it.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Checking the examples, a lot of them are simply Too Kinky to Torture. This is going to be noticeably smaller after a cleanup. I don't think any of the Anime/Manga examples on the page will survive (although one of them, Rosario To Vampire, is so vague that I'm really not sure what it is).

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.