Discussion-like formatting for Headscratchers

During this discussion, the idea was mentioned that Headscratchers would benefit from having a discussion page-like formatting akin to Lost And Found, You Know That Show and Ask The Tropers. Salient points:

• A discussion-like formatting system is more streamlined and easier to read than the current bullet point/Thread Mode system.
• Headscratchers is for questions and answers akin to Ask The Tropers and other pages mentioned above and should have the same skin as these.
• It is easier to reply in a discussion page instead of slogging through many bullet points in an edit page.
• Attaching the name of the posters to their questions could make them more responsible and avoid several common issues there, including Complaining About Shows You Dont Like.
• Converting it to a forum-like formatting would discourage certain forum-like behaviours (e.g Justifying Edits and Conversation In The Main Page) from actual wiki pages.

edited 9th Aug '12 11:23:50 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Having them as a wiki page is basically telling people "Please natter here." I see this as a very bad thing. We obviously don't want people to natter anywhere.

edited 8th Aug '12 4:37:23 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

This would make it clearer which areas are okay to treat like a forum and which are not. It might help with pages like Nightmare Fuel and Fridge Logic.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

OK, I've added these points to the OP to keep newcomers up-to-argument. However, I feel that Fridge stuff is a special case as it's basically Troper Tales but far less obnoxious.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Any other opinions on the format change?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I think I'd rather it be treated less like a discussion than more like one.

It's a Q&A. These are usually like discussions.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Yeah, I'm not sure how you'd conduct Headscratchers as anything but a discussion.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Anyone else to offer feedback here, or is this just unimportant?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Well, keep in mind that if we do a new format, all the pages will have to start over. Obviously, they'll be archived, but it will still be a pain.

Personally, I think just making sure to use folders (such as on the Headscratchers.The Legend Of Korra page) solves most of the problems.

The editing and natter issues are still there. And how do we encourage the usage of folders? Some pages are too small for that.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

If we did this, we'd almost certainly have to archive the old format.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Seems like the only damage here is that people see something that looks like an ordinary wiki page and leads them to think we can tolerate Thread Mode on the real pages. Don't we still think the page color helps people understand it is a different critter?

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty

Eddie, you should realize that the people we need to reach here are largely immune to subtlety.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I've never paid attention to different page colours, myself. And it's not the only issue. (Also, the colours are shared with the YMMV tabs)

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

For a while, there was a big banner at the top of every headscratchers page explaining that while Thread Mode and more casual dialogue was acceptable there, it wasn't on the main page. I'm not sure when that disappeared. Might have been during the name change, actually.

Hasn't worked for any of the other colors, far as I know.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Another argument in favor: Recently, a straw poll was taken and the results favored eliminating Headscratchers for tropes in favor of creating threads in Trope Talk that get summarized to the trope's Analysis/ subpage.

My personal opinion: keep Headscratchers as a discussion, and cut the old contents of Headscratchers - which was oddly enough not cut after the rename from IJBM. Also, undo the custom title of Just Bugs Me to make it easier to clean up the wicks that remain.

I'm hesitant to actually go through with this after what happened to Troper Tales, though.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

I don't get why the IJBM pages weren't wiped during the name change. At this point, old IJBM complaints are mixed indiscriminately in with useful question-and-answer threads.

Said threads would be more useful if the reader didn't have to wade through the complaints to find the questions and answers, but I understand cleaning the complaints out has been a long-running project here.

edited 29th Aug '12 6:10:22 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

I agree with the discussion-like format, but I don't think that the old contents should be indiscriminately cut. Rather, I'd prefer it if it was archived, and if people wanted to contribute to the old discussions they could just put the original question in their starting post.

True, there is a lot of complaining that still shows up, but there's a lot less than there used to be, and if an acceptable answer to one of the earlier questions is readily available, I see no reason to make someone ask it all over again.

I agree. Headscratchers doesn't really work as a wiki page—it's a Q & A. Whatever material would be interesting and insightful could go to fridge.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

The problem I see is that, despite the name change, the Headscrather pages are still mainly used for people to complain about some aspect of a work they didn't like and other people rushing in, trying to defend it. Natter and Thread Mode aren't so much a problem as a rule here and the few genuine questions and problems people have are buried under tons of bullshit.

So, my idea would be to replace the pages with kind of an FAQ.

edited 2nd Sep '12 9:33:30 PM by eX

I made a topic in Wiki Talk and was directed to come over here. This was the most recent discussion I could find and certainly a lot further along than I thought. So I will bump this.

I think changing both Headscratchers and Wild Mass Guessing (save that for another discussion) into a different format similar to the discussion tab is a great idea. Just archive the old page and start fresh. It wouldn't be technically the forums so it wouldn't alienate non-forum users, although the only thing I would suggest is a simple folder feature so you can expand/collapse topics for easy look-overs.

My main feelings is that both the length, wiki formatting and lack of accountability (you don't know who you are talking to) makes reading the page a chore, even moreso if individuals don't bother with basic formatting like bullet points, folders and putting new topics at the bottom.

edit: funny how it is hours later I find this is also in wiki talk.

edited 25th Nov '12 9:26:13 PM by KJMackley

Well, I knew it was around somewhere. Wiki Talk or Tech Wishlist... I think I'll move it there, though.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"