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Do we really need Headscratchers for tropes?

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Oreochan from Pennsylvania Since: Dec, 1969
#1: Apr 6th 2012 at 8:09:33 PM

Pasting my post from another thread.

I don't think we need headscratcher pages for tropes, they tend to attract Tropes Are Not Bad or Tropes Are Not Good arguements and walls of complaining about the trope in general which leads to some getting cut.

I can't really see why we need them when we can just chat about them in trope talk in a more neutral tone.

What should we do with them?

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#2: Apr 6th 2012 at 8:10:58 PM

We have headscratchers pages for tropes? I thought those were only for works. surprised

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Oreochan from Pennsylvania Since: Dec, 1969
#3: Apr 6th 2012 at 8:12:37 PM

The index is here,Tropes. We used to have a Mary Sue one that was an atrocious mess and got cut a few months ago.

edited 6th Apr '12 8:15:01 PM by Oreochan

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
ArcadesSabboth from Mother Earth Since: Oct, 2011
#4: Apr 6th 2012 at 8:14:22 PM

Maybe it's left over from the It Just Bugs Me days?

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
Oreochan from Pennsylvania Since: Dec, 1969
#5: Apr 6th 2012 at 8:19:02 PM

I think that's why it contradicts itself when tropes can not be Fridge Logic by nature if they are not in a work.

edited 6th Apr '12 8:20:37 PM by Oreochan

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#6: Apr 6th 2012 at 8:21:40 PM

Well Headscratchers are not IJBM they are questions most just use Trope Talk for that though.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#7: Apr 6th 2012 at 8:21:59 PM

I feel like we discussed this really recently.

Oreochan from Pennsylvania Since: Dec, 1969
#8: Apr 6th 2012 at 8:26:30 PM

I just found a thread in the summer of last year here. But no one did anything. The discussion gave birth to the Analysis namespace though.

Keeping them is risky and they have easy access using the tabs. There are lot of them that get people's blood boiling like, the Rape Tropes Double Standard tropes,Murder Tropes Gender and Sexuality ones.

Just look at the Guy On Guy Is Hot,Rape Is A Special Kind Of Evil or Animal Wrongs Group Headscratchers. We have Analysis/ and trope talk to deal with fridge logic and are much less likely to be charcoal piles waiting to spark.

Edit: Censored comment for anger and sleep deprived induced idiocy.

edited 7th Apr '12 12:52:56 PM by Oreochan

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#9: Apr 7th 2012 at 10:59:44 AM

Looks like a lot of those can be cut.

Oreochan from Pennsylvania Since: Dec, 1969
#10: Apr 7th 2012 at 9:57:31 PM

Yeah, I say cut most of them and move the analysis to that Analysis/ namespace and making them more neutral and much less flamebaity. This has the bonus effect of encouraging more use of Analysis/.

edited 7th Apr '12 9:59:52 PM by Oreochan

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
Oreochan from Pennsylvania Since: Dec, 1969
#11: May 10th 2012 at 12:13:00 AM

Bump.

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
DrStarky Okay Guy from Corn And Pig Land Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Okay Guy
#12: May 10th 2012 at 11:53:55 AM

Any purpose they can serve is both outweighed by the potential for abuse and better done elsewhere.

I'd be glad to see them gone.

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
◥▶◀◤
#13: May 17th 2012 at 11:00:18 AM

I'd say yes we need them they often help us understand flaws in a tropes logic and reason that help us better understand how the trope is either used in fiction or fixed in fiction via inversion, subversion, down playing extra.

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#14: May 17th 2012 at 11:33:18 AM

Those apply to individual examples and can go on the Headscratchers page for the work to which they belong. What you are talking about belongs in Analysis.

edited 17th May '12 11:33:33 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Oreochan from Pennsylvania Since: Dec, 1969
#15: Jun 13th 2012 at 8:14:53 AM

Bumping again.

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#16: Jun 13th 2012 at 2:57:03 PM

I say give 'em all the chop. The only good thing that can come of them is better suited for Analysis.

edited 13th Jun '12 2:57:29 PM by nrjxll

TailsDoll I have a plan. Since: Apr, 2012
I have a plan.
#17: Jun 14th 2012 at 2:59:00 AM

I say we cut all Headscratchers on the trope pages.

"@[=g3,8d]&fbb=-q]/hk%fg"
MangaManiac Since: Aug, 2010
#18: Jun 14th 2012 at 9:09:10 AM

I could of sworn we decided that trope pages shouldn't have Headscratchers.

Regardless, another vote for removing them. Maybe salvaging anything useful to the Analysis page if/when we go through and cut them all.

edited 14th Jun '12 9:15:31 AM by MangaManiac

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#19: Jun 14th 2012 at 9:12:17 AM

Going to agree wit this. Do we need a crowner to confirm?

Also, I'd say that Headscratchers like questions should go to Trope Talk.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#21: Jun 14th 2012 at 9:52:56 AM

What do we do with Headscratchers.Tropes? My idea was to put in something like

Actually, no, since there are no lice on the wiki.

Please put questions about tropes in Trope Talk and answers or analysis in the trope's Analysis/ tab.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#23: Jun 14th 2012 at 12:05:22 PM

Has it been brought up that Headscratchers is pretty much obsolete with the Fridge Logic tab?

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#24: Jun 14th 2012 at 12:08:39 PM

[up]Yes, but it isn't the topic of this thread, strictly speaking. Make another thread if you think that it's important.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#25: Jun 16th 2012 at 1:56:55 PM

This page has convinced me we don't need them. It's basically a Troper Tales whinefest.

Torch 'em.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

21st Jun '12 12:43:01 AM

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