Wreck-It Ralph

Not to mention a Story-Breaker Power. Within the world of video games, rewritting code is functionally a Reality Warper. Vanellope being reinstated into the main game even comes with a pseudo godly aura.

It all goes right back to what I've said about the rules of this universe not being very well thought out.

I will actually agree that Turbo/King Candy was a twist villain done right. We knew he was a villain but we didn't know whom exactly he was and what kind of villain he was until the final act of the movie.

Hans to me was the most dissapointing twist villain out there. There was next to no buildup to him being the villain on the first watch through and I think Frozen would either of been better off without a villain entirely or having Elsa as a Tragic Villain.

There was just so much potential in those two possible plot threads but they wasted it to hammer in the theme that marrying yourself to a guy you just met was stupid which is a fair message but by that point in the movie I think it could of been handled much better than a sudden sociopathic change in attitude out of the blue.

Edited by Wispy on Jan 16th 2019 at 1:20:37 AM

For a movie whose entire point is to explore sisterly love as a form of true love and champion the relationship between its two sister characters, Frozen spends a hell of a lot of pointless time dwelling on a romantic arc that doesn't actually matter.

It's supposed to be for a "gotcha:" you thought this was a love story? Well you assumed too quick! But gotchas are generally a bad idea for that reason: on rewatch, all that time becomes retroactively useless (plus if you didn't get what it's targetting in the first place, you have no context for why the plot thread just drops), and Frozen especially could've better used that time actually developing Anna and Elsa's relationship in the middle of the film, which is instead largely dedicated to Kristoff and trying to get to Hans and all that.

I hear the Broadway musical handles it better, but it's one of the main reasons I think the film isn't very good. Ultimately, if you want to challenge people's assumptions about true love, make the story fully about that sisterly love, rather than fully setting up an arc about something different and then abruptly shifting gears right at the close.

This is not the Frozen thread.

Elsa camoed in wreck it ralph 2 so i assume thats why they were discussing her in the first place

It's a line of discussion on the "hidden villain" trend of the Disney CGI Renaissance. Hans from Frozen doesn't really work because it's more of a post-modern wink to an audience who are accustomed to the romantic tropes of previous films. It functions well enough upon first viewing but he is such a non-character, and Anna's relationship with Kristoff is also underbaked, that the writing doesn't come off well on repeated viewings.

Which itself started, I think, from my posting my suspicion that Yasss was supposed to be the surprise villain of this movie at some point, but changed roles during development.

x5

This is also why I think 'Life's Too Short' is the better song choice compared to 'First Time In Forever (Reprise)'. The Reprise doesn't have much meat or conflict too it. Anna is too nice and caring and a perfect sister, while the other suggests that they do genuinely care for each other, but they're too innocently insensitive and don't know how to communicate properly to make their sisterly bond work. Which is all around much more accurate to sisters and ESPECIALLY sisters who don't talk to eachother very often.

I see a LOT of fanfic writers and general WIR fans hating Shank to Ron the Death Eater levels, or at least criticizing her for being boring/an enabler/the catalyst for a Broken Aesop. Does she have any defenders or is the hate fairly universal?

I preferred Shank to Ralph for much of the movie. Slightly hard-edged Cool Big Sis type > clingy, whiny, insecure asshole.

I have a hard time truly hating any character who the story is trying to empathize with. She would have to be at the forefront of a monumental Broken Aesop (embrace bad influences because they are more exciting) rather than just facilitate a Family-Unfriendly Aesop (sometimes you have to do what's best for yourself even if your friends are dependent on you). Shank has very little impact on the overall story, and Vanellope seemed to be very emotionally vulnerable independent of meeting her ("I'm lucky you found me before a cult did"), so I really don't see a justification for it.

The most common complaint is that it's a Broken Aesop in relation to the first movie's aesop rather than in the movie as a standalone, though I have seen the latter argument too.

Basically, it's a bunch of mixed metaphors. Ralph learned to appreciate returning to a place where he was unhappy because he was needed as well as his valuable role in being the bad guy even if they treated him like crap. Vanellope left Sugar Rush because she was unhappy there and abandoned the game despite her being the most popular racer there (who will be missed).

Its a very noticeable double standard because it diametrically opposes the previous games themes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Izz-0VRHok

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 26th 2019 at 2:35:37 AM

I don't think they're super opposed. I just think they missed trying to reconcile them. I think the difference is that Ralph was happy with what he did, but villainized for doing his job. He needed to be accepted and apprecieated for such a vital job in the workplace. Vanellope isn't happy with what she does and is bored by the work. She needs a new change of pace and maybe some new jobs.

Or that's how I see it.

Dewey defeats Truman!◊

Wow, they didn't even get the year right.

I think a better bit might be that Vanellope never really befriends her fellow races in Sugar Rush.

That the scars don't really heal.

And she likes the Slaughter Race crew better.

To be honest, the way the racers acted in the movie felt a little like a Snap Back from the first movie; Taffeta and her posse seemed to be back to treating Vanellope with some level of disdain, and the rest of the racers seemed to overall be pests (though not bullies anymore at least). Maybe that's just me, though.

I don't think they were programmed to be jerks. They were just jerks who treated her as an outsider because they didn't remember her.

Which is depressing.

However, hopefully Felix and Calhoun have shaped them up.

That makes them worse though...

We don't really see them interact with her outside of being standoffish about racing, and they only appear for like five minutes overall, so I don't know how much of a Snap Back it was overall.

I think it's more they're all programmed to be brats, but usually they're not supposed to be evil brats. Just the usual Bratty Half-Pint. Even Vanellope is still like that in the second one.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 27th 2019 at 8:54:46 AM

Aren't they suppose to act different off the clock...?

Not necesarily. Calhoun and Felix act outside of game context and still come across what their in-game characters are meant to be.

And I never got the impression that Sugar Rushians ever left their game before Vanellope got restored.

They're in a weird nebulous zone between knowing they're actors and having the backgrounds they're programmed with.

Calhoun still remembers her fiance for example, despite the fact he never existed.

Yeah, it's hard to say whether it was the right call for Vanellope to game jump like that. (Personally, I wonder what would've happened if Ralph had waited until after the steering wheel arrived at Litwak's to disclose to Vanellope the truth about hiring "Arthur" to crash Slaughter Race).