You know, the domain name 'animetropes.com' isn't taken...

So here's the thing. I recently proposed a trope that had 'Anime' in the working title. This was because all the examples I could think of were Japanese in origin; there was something distinctly Japanese about it. However, people immediately started leaving negative comments, arguing that it was "older than Anime" and how "not everything is from Japan." People starting ranting about how Anime fans have tunnel vision and how they're ruining the site.

The thing is, I'm definitely not an anime fan. In fact, I generally recoil from anime, and really can't stand occidental otakus. I proposed the trope because it was something I'd noticed that didn't really have a name, and I'd perused similar pages and found them insufficient. It was certainly a subtrope to something broader and more pancultural, but because it was about Anime, people assumed I was an obsessive fan pushing an agenda.

The point is, tvtropes seems to be made up of two major groups: anime fanatics and people who don't really like anime fanatics. It's pretty ridiculous how almost every trope has an Anime & Manga section of comparable length to the rest of the examples.

So why not take steps to form a second wiki for Anime Tropes? The proverbial Crowning Moment list has grown too long and should be moved to it's own metaphorical page.

I know I can't be the first person to think of this, but I want to know why it hasn't been done.

edited 16th Feb '11 3:30:39 PM by mechanixis

Somewhere, a Lumper is crying.

But I have to say the thread title brought a smile to my heart. If the TV Tropes Drinking Game doesn't have "take a drink whenever a description for a trope Shakespeare has used explicitly elaborates on the use of the trope in Anime and no other medium", it should.

Note to people complaining about lots and lots and lots of Anime/Manga examples at the top of the page: Young men, I was once in your shoes. The "Show folders closed by default" setting is your friend.

edited 16th Feb '11 3:32:35 PM by TripleElation

Wikis are free - you are welcome to start your own. We are not, however, going to make distinctions between "ownership" of tropes according to media except where directly appropriate. The reason there's a backlash against calling tropes Anime-specific is because in the past a lot of tropers were trying to do exactly that.

Anime is not different than any other medium.

I bet that a majority of pepole who don't care for Anime can tolerate it being covered on this site.

No. We don't need an extra site. That'll cost more money.

I think some of the backlash is valid, but I think it goes to show that people who come to this site for anime tropes are a separate demographic from the ones who come for general tropes, and both parties would be served better by dividing the site into two separate domains.

edited 16th Feb '11 3:33:44 PM by mechanixis

Negative. We are trying to unite people in their search for tropes, not divide them. People may come for the anime, but they stay for the tropes. You are imagining a problem that does not exist.

There are plenty of pepole on this site in between those who are fanatical about Anime and alergic to Anime.

edited 16th Feb '11 3:40:15 PM by DrStarky

This thread would get the CHOPSTICKS Chop of Disapproval, if I would have ever bothered photoshopping it.

''"People may come for the anime, but they stay for the tropes."

They also come for the tropes and stay for the anime, like me.

edited 16th Feb '11 3:40:22 PM by EternalSeptember

And then there are those who come for the tropes and avoid the anime like yersinia pestis...

But really, is it so hard to just close a folder? I don't care for when trope descriptions delve too much into the trope's use in anime (and don't do the same for other mediums, anyway) or when tropes that are not remotely anime-unique have names that indicate they are. But splitting off a different wiki for the examples? That seems awfully excessive.

What is this, 2009? The Anime/Anti-anime bickering has died down significantly lately.

By the way, I have added over 20 work pages for Anime titles. But I've added more non-anime work pages than that. I'm not an "Anime fan", I'm a "fiction fan who likes Anime."

I think most people who enjoy anime fall in that same demographic. I've never met anyone who liked only one type of fictional works to the exclusion of all others.

edited 16th Feb '11 4:41:21 PM by Meeble

"Anime tropes" are not a thing. A trope can be used in anime. It's entirely possible that a given trope has only ever been used in anime. But it can still appear in a non-anime work.

Anyone worried about huge example lists under "Anime and Manga" can close the folder.

There are real, actual differences between video games and other media that mean that a trope can be created that cannot be used in a non-video game work. But is anyone pointing out that videogametropes.com isn't taken?  ^*

Anime Tropes

We don't need a separate site, but if something is mainly seen in anime (like the OP said) then I see no problem with it having an anime related name. If it can be proven that it exists in other mediums and is more universal, it should probably named as such.

(in essence, don't let the fact that it's anime/not-anime be the judge of whether the name is good. Let it be a factor, weighted differently based on the situation.)

edited 16th Feb '11 8:25:25 PM by TheInferno

That sums up my view pretty well. I feel there are some tropes that are skewed, in name or description, towards being more anime-focused then they really are. However, there is nothing wrong with the existence of tropes or examples related to any medium. If you don't want to read them, then don't. As some of the others have said, just close the folder.

edited 16th Feb '11 9:26:17 PM by nrjxll

I agree that there are some tropes which are, effectively, anime/manga only. The Thing That Goes Doink, for instance. Is it used anywhere that isn't anime, anime-inspired, or Japanese in origin? (looking at the page, I'd say, "Not really".) However, they are much rarer than some folks think.

edited 16th Feb '11 11:02:35 PM by Madrugada

The key difference really is that anything that is common in anime can be used in an Animesque show or just plain Western Animation or even Live-Action TV. Some tropes are common in one form of media but like The Tropeless Tale there isn't anything that is unique unto itself. This is the reason why TV Tropes has expanded far beyond its original incarnation.

Take the pilot. You may think it is unique only to television, but many production companies film a self-contained "proof of concept" movie in order to try and sell the whole thing to a studio. Many cheap budget student films become major features, many one-off comic books become Long Runners without meaning to.

My argument would be that "anime tropes" are actual "japanese media" tropes. Tropes seem to have multiple sources, some extending from the mechanics of the medium, others from the format of the medium, and some from the cultural source. Most of what come from the cultural source are things like character archetypes, which tend to be shared in some sense, symbolism and style mimicry.

I have no problem with anime tropes in general.

My only problem is having an anime trope that had existed so much outside of anime yet still has those annoying people that defend its validity, primarily because of Fan Myopia. I am looking at you, Nakama.

edited 17th Feb '11 1:40:08 AM by Ookamikun

<Mod Hat On>

We will not have a Nakama derail. From here on out, any attempts to turn the focus of the conversation to Nakama in particular will be dealt with . . . harshly.

edited 17th Feb '11 2:05:49 AM by Ironeye

That is the dumbest idea, I've heard for years. If there is a split in a group, then the solution is not to split them even further.

How should this even work? What tropes should be listed there? Tropes that only appear in anime (which is a very small number)? Tropes that mostly appear in anime (which often aren't easy to pinpoint)?

I'm not an anime person, but I actually find the true Japan-only tropes to provide fascinating little insights into a different culture. (Though as an aside, I also am sometimes curious about whether these are mainstream Japanese cultural tropes or peculiar to Japanese otaku culture, which are two different things.)

The problem is where tropes originated by Shakespeare or Chaucer or Homer are written up with descriptions that talk about it as if it's only used in anime. It seems like a lot of this sort of thing gets corrected, but I still run into examples.

Fan Myopia and Older Than They Think are comprehensive phenomena hardly limited to This Wiki. Splitting off an Anime Tropes wiki would only isolate that subgroup further and provide far less useful information than a general site. It would be akin to saying, "Your geeky little subculture is not worth bothering about, take it somewhere where people actually care." Which is rather astonishingly hypocritical from anyone who seriously contributes to TV Tropes.

edited 17th Feb '11 6:52:19 AM by Fighteer

It might also be caused because the otacu culture really likes defining, and discussing tropes.

Maybe Shakespeare used something that is basically like Tsundere, but only the otaku bothered to give it a name, and make it into the obligatory romantic comedy archetype that must appear in at least 5 shows per season.

edited 17th Feb '11 7:52:31 AM by EternalSeptember

I would like to expand on Ironeye's suggestion to keep this thread from becoming a thread about Trope Names and which should/shouldn't have the names they currently do.

There are plenty of places to discuss those, and most that would be brought up already have been discussed ad nauseum.

This is making me almost nostalgic, it has been a while since we had our last " Purge all anime from, the wiki" thread.