Repair/rewrite/split/cleanup?: Sci Fi Ghetto

Courtesy link: Sci Fi Ghetto

This article is supposed to be about how science fiction suffers from the stereotype that it isn't True Art but also suffers from being non-mainstream, thus causing it to be relegated to a "ghetto" or niche market of consumers and suppliers.

But the article's write-up also discusses a similar "Fantasy Ghetto".

And then the examples are a mix of examples of the sci-fi ghetto itself along with examples of yet other such "ghettos", such as the "comic book ghetto" (my term).

• Would it be useful to make a page for each "ghetto"?
• Would it be better to rename this page to something that isn't specifically "sci fi" in the title? Such as "Geeky Stuff Ghetto", for starters?
• Would it be useful to have a "ghetto index"?
• Would it be useful to have an index of media commentary, that would include the sorts of "ghettos" described here (but exclude other unrelated ghettos such as Blue Bishōnen Ghetto), along with some other articles?

Well, I think for the purposes of making a Fantasy Gehtto page, the thing is that Sci-Fi and Fantasy seem to be interchangeable when listing genres for things like this. Kind of like how Heavy Mithril isn't just for music with fantasy themes, and also includes Sci-Fi themed music.

I wouldn't mind having either of those indices, though.

edited 10th Feb '11 6:30:12 PM by Balmung

Fantasy and Sci-fi sometimes overlap, but it's nowhere near a complete overlap.

How about changing it to "Sci Fi/Fantasy Ghetto"? The entry will only need a bit of rewriting and the examples won't need changing.

edited 15th Feb '11 5:38:16 AM by BloodyManiac

You can't have slashes in the names.

Lasers And Unicorns Ghetto

Speculative Fiction Ghetto?

That sounds good.

Yes. Seems like the obvious title, really.

I was going to suggest "Genre Ghetto" or "Genre Fiction Ghetto", which could open it up to other marginalized genres, but Speculative Fiction Ghetto sums it up perfectly.

Which raises the question — is it worth creating new pages for things like the Horror Ghetto, etc?

Well, some genres might not really have a ghetto; horror movies don't have much of a niche fandom the way sci-fi and fantasy do.

That said, making such a general ghetto page might be nice.

I was going to support Sci Fantasy Ghetto when I realized I had forgotten then whole speculative fiction thing. So yeah, Speculative Fiction Ghetto. It also looks better encompasing.

horror movies don't have much of a niche fandom the way sci-fi and fantasy do

o_O

O_o

I'm squinting hard but I don't see the joke here. Because you really cannot be serious about this...

One of the archetypal nerds is the creepy horror movie buff. Sci-fi and Fantasy are mainstream, especially compared against the giallo films and suchlike.

If anything, Sci-fi and Fantasy are unfairly discriminated against because they are seen as mainstream and thus areof course inherently devalued.

Literature is another matter, but Horror is at least as ghettoised overall as Speculative Fiction.

Okay, perhaps I have been totally unaware of the existence of a horror movie ghetto at all. Please pardon my ignorance.

Late to this, but the name should really be changed to Speculative Fiction ghetto.

I think I would argue that horror movies are slightly less ghettoized, only because of the whole "take the girl to the scary movie" trope (which probably has a name somewhere). That's a pretty mainstream trope. Hard-core horror fans, though, yeah, they're lumped in with SF and fantasy geeks. But horror also fits fairly well in Speculative Fiction, so Speculative Fiction Ghetto should work in any case.

i agree

I normally hear this as Genre Ghetto, but that's really opaque if you don't already know the term. (And romance novels and, maybe to a lesser extent, murder mysteries also seem to get the ghetto treatment.) But I'm fine with Speculative Fiction Ghetto.

Girls Are Really Scared of Horror Movies?

edited 7th Oct '11 1:50:58 AM by DoktorvonEurotrash

Actually, Genre Ghetto makes some sense, especially if you're correct about this not just being limited to Speculative Fiction. I have always had the impression that any work from a specific genre tends to be ghettoized to some degree, with the only "acceptable" works being "general" ones.

I would have suggested Geek Ghetto, but Genre Ghetto also works.

Also, while horror does have a niche fandom comparable to scifi and fantasy, normal people like horror as well, and the die-hard buffs are only a small part of the total audience. In contrast, the fantasy fandom consists primarily of the hardcore geeks. Scifi has more acceptance, but is still seen as a geek thing where horror isn't.

Having a general Genre Ghetto page would be nice, and then we can split up individual subtropes when necessary.

That sounds good, there are a lot of genres that very rarely get a shot at critical acclaim unless they have huge budgets and mass appeal (Such as Lord Of The Rings films). I can name a couple, though having an index or super-trope would be nice.

• Animation Age Ghetto (which we have already, yay!)
• For Kids Ghetto (may be redundant with What Do You Mean, It's for Kids??)
• Speculative Fiction Ghetto
• Horror Ghetto (although I'd agree that distinctions need to be made to separate mass-consumed and popular horror from niche horror...but then they'd both fall into the ghetto anyway because neither are especially high-regarded. Dunno)
• Rom Com Ghetto (noooobody likes Rom Coms, myself included, but that might make an interesting page)
• ...Pretty much any genre that isn't action, drama, comedy or foreign films, which are usually well-recieved

Rom Com isn't a ghetto. It's one of the most profitable genres. It's hugely popular in it's target audience. Just because that's not you doesn't mean it's not popular.

edited 7th Oct '11 10:17:39 AM by shimaspawn

Rom Com has something like an anti-ghetto: Widely successful among mainstream audiences but unpopular among geeks.

, I agree that they are very profitable and it's for that reason that producers like to shoe-horn in romance side-plots into movies that don't need them to gain a wider audience. I was thinking more of how they aren't very highly-regarded by (primarily male) audiences and sort of looked-down upon for being 'just' Rom Coms or 'just' romances that have no artistry or value beyond shallowness; it's like how "girlfriends forcing guys to watch a romantic movie" is kind of a running joke in society. I'd understand if no one else sees it as a possible Genre Ghetto, just thought it'd be worth bringing up. Sort of the opposite to the erroneous "nerdy guys are the only ones who care about sci-fi" thought process.

EDIT: Sorry, the pothole should be Token Romance.

edited 7th Oct '11 11:10:42 AM by Gillespie