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Headscratchers / Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony

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    Cleaning the WMG page 
  • This isn't just about the game, it's about the WMG page - I think it needs a clean-up, or at least people should hold off posting on it until it's confirmed which spoilers are real and which are fake. There's a lot of fake spoilers on there (e.g. the ones about Rantaro surviving, and him and Kaede teaming up to outwit the Mastermind by him faking his death and Kaede taking the rap for it).
    • Actually, we could, but there's a lot of WMG's so it would really take time.
    • Well, first it would be needed to decide what is erasable and what is not. Most of the things like who are the killers and who are the playable characters should be erased in my opinion. They are speculation for before the game and make no difference after the game is played.
    • The demo has come out, so there's official English confirmation of talents, hints at backstories, etc. When the main game comes out in America and Europe maybe then it could use a rework.
    Kodaka's intentions 
  • What Exactly is the ending? Did Kodaka really wanted to end the franchise? Is there any official word from him or Spike about the backlash they are getting? From what I've seen, fans seem to almost universally dislike the ending and it has certainly already reached the ears of the company by now. I know he has always been a troll but I don't think he hates his fans, I think the ending was just some sort of deconstructive joke about itself that came off as offensive to fans. So far all I have is fan speculation but has there been any official word on it yet?
    • One thing I don't understand is how Kodaka basically stated that Danganronpa 3 ended the HPA saga. If Kodaka was really intending to end the franchise, why couldn't he just end it in Danganronpa 3 instead of starting a brand new saga?
      • Likely he wanted to end that particular story line, but still use the same world, game mechanics etc for future installments of the franchise.
    • I think he was trying to end the franchise, but in a way that felt satisfactory and earned to everyone involved. I think it worked perfectly, as most "haters" understood the point after stopping to interpret what the played.
    • A recent tweet from Kodaka seems to indicate that he doesn't want the series to end. The question is, though, who will continue it?
    What's the difference between the normal Discussion theme and Discussion -Perjury-? 
  • see title.
    • This game's version of Discussion -BREAK- is missing the reverberating vocal track that the previous games' versions had. Discussion -PERJURY- is the same as -BREAK-, but with that vocal track restored.

    Chapter 1 victim question 
  • We didn't know that Kaede was framed until almost the ending of this game. Just how did Tsumugi even manage to PICK UP an iron ball to hit Rantaro over the head? Aren't they supposed to be extremely heavy like an actual cannon ball?
    • It's a ball used for shot puts. It's heavy indeed but it's something athletes throw over 10 meters away with a single hand and Shirogane was most likely using both hands to carry it.
    • In the closing argument thing it shows the shadow figure using one hand to just throw it straight at Rantaro's head. Not sure if we should rely on those or not though.
      • That's not true. The closing argument never shows the culprit throwing the put ball. In one of the demonstrations it's shown how the culprit hits Rantaro over the head instead.
      • Either way, it's Word of God since the first game that the Closing Arguments are the protagonist's deductions/imagination, not exact facts.

    What is Ki-bo? (MAJOR END-GAME SPOILERS) 
  • If all the students were actually ordinary students turned into SHSL students through fake memories, then is Ki-bo even a robot? Did he used to be a regular flesh-and-blood human? Is he a human in a robot-looking suit, or perhaps an augmented human? In the prologue when Kaede saw everyone in their ordinary high schooler uniforms, Ki-bo didn't have the black lines/seams down his cheek. Or since he was meant to be an audience surrogate, could he be the only one who was not an ordinary human from the start, but rather an actual robot? He does say that he cannot eat, for starters.
    • The japanese artbook for the game states that Ki-bo is still a robot during the prologue, so I'd say it's the last one.
    • The prologue is after everyone lost their memories, but before they were given their talents.
    • That's the point. The artbook has a few pages showing everyone in their high school uniforms, and Ki-bo's clothes are stated to hide his robotic body quite well, so I don't think he was human even then. Perhaps those lines were disguised with something so as not to attract attention?
    • His body plating is shown in the prologue when the students get their new clothes, adding yet another layer of ambiguity. But it's also possible that the Ki-bo from the prologue was just unremarkable-looking for a robot, or one that was designed to look exactly like a human, so Team Dangan Ronpa wanted to turn him into a more traditionally uber futuristic-looking robot with lots of pieces and edges.

    The Resurrection Ritual (CHAPTER 3, 4, 6 SPOILERS) 
  • What would have happened if the students had gone through with the Resurrection Ritual? It's one of the weirdest motives in the whole DR franchise and it doesn't really end up getting used because of Angie's death. Did the writers intentionally leave it unresolved because they also weren't sure? After all, bringing a character back from the dead would be considered cheap unless you could justify it by them surviving their murder or execution somehow. Alternatively, maybe Monokuma would've made an Alter Ego for the chosen student like in Chapter 4.
    • I've seen two main theories on this: 1. DRV3 is in a virtual reality program like DR2, and the "resurrection" just brings back their avatar. Since unlike the Neo World Program in DR 2, the virtual reality here would be designed for killing games, it would likely be doable. 2. They dress up some guy who looks like Rantaro/Kaede/Kirumi/Ryouma, and flashback light Rantaro/Kaede/Kirumi/Ryouma's memories into them.
      • The former could be true. After all, the rules of the Neo World Program are different in DRV3 compared to DR2 - in DR2, the victims are left comatose, in DRV3 they just die outright. Maybe V3's Neo World Program is so simple because it's already a Neo World Program and can't contain a whole different separate world with the same level of detail? The latter theory is interesting, but unless the copy was perfect, they'd probably also need to "convince" the rest of the students with the Flashback Light.
      • Or maybe it is virtual reality, but nobody dies for real. The players who died in the game awaken in real life with their old memories, and are told how well they did in the game. Then the things that Tsumugi said during the final trial were just mostly lies, an attempt to make the show more entertaining. Which would explain why the viewers have no major moral qualms about watching it for that many seasons: they know that it's just a show. And virtual reality would explain all the high-tech things that were happening, such as implanted ultimate abilities.
  • There's no real indication that V3 is a virtual reality program. I think the intended explanation is that Team Danganronpa would have used a Flashback Light to implant the surviving student's memories into another participant. They seem to have a huge amount of potential participants, so it's likely they could have found very close lookalikes. If they'd chosen Kaede, her twin sister may have replaced her. As for the Neo World Program, I believe it was so much less advanced because the VR technology from the HPA saga doesn't exist in reality in V3's world.
    • Actually they wouldn't even need a lookalike, they could have just used a flashback light to retcon the new appearance.
    • As far as I see it, the key sequences showed that it must be a virtual reality: walls vanishing into thin air, giant buildings dropping from sky, etc. And it's hard to imagine an universe where hi-tech such as flashback lights, implanted ultimate abilities, nanomachines (the cameras) and Keebo exist for real, but advanced virtual reality doesn't.
  • The answer is probably "they wouldn't have". The ritual was a motive, after all; the point was to cause a murder, which in turn would naturally prevent the ritual from being completed. Motives are always targeted and coordinated extremely well, so the idea was probably that if there was any chance of the question ever having to be answered, it wouldn't have been given in the first place.

     (MAJOR LATE-GAME SPOILERS) The true method of Rantarou's murder 
  • So Kaede meant to roll a shot put ball down the vent and the rows of bookcases to kill the mastermind (although Rantarou got in the way). However, the ball missed, although since nobody knew any better yet, Kaede is labelled the culprit. What really happened is that Tsumugi went and got a DIFFERENT shot put ball and killed Rantarou with it, and threw away the shot put ball that Kaede used. The question here is: why? Specifically, why didn't Tsumugi just pick up Kaede's missed shot put ball and kill Rantarou with it, rather than use a different shot put ball?
    • She didn't know if it would hit Rantaro or not. If it did, sweet, she wouldn't have to get her hands dirty. But if it didn't hit, she would have to use a different ball, since Rantaro would almost certainly look at the ball. She had to kill him quickly, without his knowing. If Tsumugi ran over and tried to grab the shot-put ball, then Rantaro would have noticed and would definitely have fought her. Tsumugi was on a strict time constraint, not only because she has 30 seconds before the camera reloads, but also because Kaede and Shuichi were running to the scene. She couldn't risk using the ball that Kaede tried using because there was a high probability of being caught in the act, thus she had to prepare one of her own and hit him from behind, without his even knowing.

     (What the hell?) 
  • So, apparently the series became famous enough that the creators decided to involve "real people" (from the universe's perspective) into a game where teenagers kill themselves for entertainment. To make things worse, the series was on its 53rd season by the events of the games, so the amount of people that died would've been around +150. Why doesn't anyone protest against this, or why doesn't the government take action? (why do they even ALLOW it to happen, for crying out loud)?
    • On the same topic, it also worries me that nobody reacts to Team Danganronpa having advanced technology which can literally implant TALENTS into normal people without said talents. It sounds silly, but I can't understand why does an entertainment show have this and why doesn't the society of the game use it for something else that's useful like, I don't know, create talented MEDICS/ENGINEERS/ETC?) Or the fact that it could be stolen and used for terrorism? (particularly the "memory implant" thing).
    • My guess for the first question is one or both of the following: 1.) Since the participants willingly signed up for the killing game, the show isn't responsible for their deaths (or some other legal stuff that takes the responsibility of death and injury off the show's hands); 2.) The government itself likes the show too much to interfere.
    • As for the second question, we know too little about the outside world to know whether the Flashback Lights are being used for anything other than making more installments of the Dangan Ronpa show. But assuming that the technology isn't being used for anything else, it could just be handwaved as an oversight in the world-building (Reed Richards Is Useless). Or maybe the entire world is too obsessed with Dangan Ronpa to care about anything else.
    • The point above about everyone liking the show too much to stop it is probably how it's happened. Another point to consider with that: Way back in the Prologue, when Kaede's remembering what happened to her, she remembered getting abducted off the street in broad daylight surrounded by people, but no one lifted a finger to help, and that was how she knew, in her own words, how rotten this world truly was. And when everyone's in the gym, everyone's simply confused and scared, not excited as Tsumugi tries to claim in the final chapter. The only possible recognition of the kids realizing that they're on the show is Kaede trying to connect the Monokubs' presence with something (likely Monokuma and by extension Danganronpa, but continually getting interrupted before she can finish her sentence). No flashback lights had been used yet (Monokid says that he forgot to give them their first memory during this scene), so everything up till then was likely the actual truth. Whether the show actually had willing participants when it began can't be determined, but it is clear that by the time V3 takes place no one was participating willingly. This makes Tsumugi's accounts of the players' "auditions" mere lies; lies that Shuichi and the others can't refute because of their overwritten memories, and that the public is all too willing to believe to justify the show's continuation.
    • Another reason it's unlikely that the participants were willing is that if the show has run for 50 seasons, and they always cheat the winner out of their prize and their freedom, as they did with Rantaro and tried to do with the survivors of V3, then people would start to catch on and stop signing up.

     Cospox (SPOILERS) 
  • So in the final trial Tsumugi, who turns out to be the mastermind, is all over the surviving students. Telling them they're fiction and how they can't leave the school because they're fictional characters in a fictional world. BUT!!! When she wears Kaede's clothes in chapter 1 she gets 'cospox' because, apparently, she can't cosplay as non-fictional characters. Now, you probably already see where I'm going with this... If Tsumugi insists that the survivors are fictional characters, then why did she get cospox by wearing Kaede's clothes if she was just as fictional as the others?
    • One of several reasons. Either cospox was a lie from the start, cospox doesn't see Kaede as a "fictional" person because she's still a flesh and blood human being, regardless of personality, or cospox works the other way around, and she can't disguise herself as fictional people, based on the word structure, because "cospox" implies that the hives would come from cosplaying.
    • There is also the possibility that the Tsumugi in the game was just a character played by the real Tsumugi, and that cospox is only a trait of Tsumugi's character. Her character gets a horrible rash when she disguises as her classmates, whom are real to her, but "real" Tsumugi would be unaffected by cosplaying as Kaede, who is fictional to her.
    • Another point for cospox being a straight-up lie: when Tsumugi cosplays as Kaede, she has Kaede turn around first and not look until she's ready. But when Tsumugi's cosplaying as the previous game's players, she's able to swap outfits in the blink of an eye with everyone watching. Now what would she have needed this extra time for earlier? To add the hives onto her skin to create this fake illness, thus giving her an alibi to not be suspected for disguises during the game, (and with extra mind-fuckery for the survivors in the finale as an added bonus).

     Kokichi hates murder 
  • So, Kokichi does more or less everything he does in the game out of his hatred of murder and his want to stop the killing game because it's taking so many lives. But then why did he do what he did in chapter 4? There were certainly better ways to go about it, why did he have to sacrifice both Miu's and Gonta's lives?
    • Because 1)Ouma just really didn't want to die or let Iruma kill everyone else by winning the Trial. He specially didn't want to die himself, which is he gave Gonta the job. As you can tell from him asking ti be executed, he latter regreted this decision. 2)Iruma was already determined to kill everyone, so if he stopped the plan he already figured out in a non-lethal way, she would just come back later with another plan he hasn't figured out yet. Considering Iruma's overpowered talent, she can potentially do anything and leaving to try as many times as she wants is a terribly dangerous idea.
      • But could he not have just told everybody that she was planning a murder? That way, she couldn't carry one out without being suspected early and, with the combo of Shuichi and Kokichi, assuming Miu doesn't try and succeed killing either of them in her plan, there's no possible way she would have gotten away with it.
      • Ever heard of the term Crying Wolf? It could have very likely if he told everybody that Miu was planning on killing on him, nobody would believe him, and it would be meaningless.
    • No one believed Ouma when he revealed that Gonta was the one who killed Iruma, so it's absolutely certain that no one would have believed Ouma if he had warned everyone that Iruma was planning to kill him. As for why he dealt with her lethally, that isn't very certain. But maybe he was trying to keep up an act? At the end of Chapter 4, he convinced everyone that he enjoys seeing humans suffer.
      • Dealing with her non-lethally is way too dangerous to try. If he just sabotages the plan he figured out, she could come back with another plan he hadn't figured out yet. If he exposed her to everyone, she could get desperate and go for a Total Party Kill to win through the 2 person rule without a Trial. She had means to control all the Exisals, so this sort of murder rampage is far from impossible to her.
    • Okay but he was still willing to kill off everyone else except Gonta until he changed his mind halfway through the trial and it seemed to be mostly because he was pissed off that Shuichi tried to lie about him being the culprit, which was what he wanted anyway.
      • I don't think he was willing to kill them off. He would have told them Gonta had done it by the end if they had not figured it out.
      • The goal with killing Iruma was not dying, so he obviously would pick a method that would kill him.
      • To be fair, Kokichi was expecting Gonta to confess almost instantly. Which Gonta couldn't actually do, because he had lost his memories... which Kokichi didn't know about.
    • If Kokichi hates murder so much, then why did he decide to let himself be killed by Kaito to save Maki, considering she just tried to kill him and Kokichi specifically kept baiting her for being the Ultimate Assassin? Did he feel like he deserved to die after orchestrating the deaths of Gonta and Miu and figured that he was no better than Maki after what he did?
      • Kokichi didn't let himself be killed by Kaito to save Maki. He blackmailed Kaito into murdering him so he could create a murder in which Monokuma could not figure out. He always planned to kill himself to carry out his plan, but Maki forced him to do it much earlier than he planned. Since Maki would be executed if either one of Kokichi or Kaito died due to the poison, Kokichi was able to force Kaito to drink the antidote and then help Kokichi in his plan by murdering him as Kaito would not want to let Maki die.
     (MAJOR LATE-GAME SPOILERS) The Book in Kokichi's Lab 
  • The History of Hope's Peak Academy. What was it doing in Kokichi's lab? The only purpose it serves in story is to prove the memories are inconsistent. Why would Team Danganronpa put it there when it's implied the Hope's Peak thing was a last minute "retcon" made by Tsumugi? And even if they put it in response to the last minute retcon, why would they? The students realizing the memories were inconsistent derailed the plot. What's more, Shuichi never connects the dots with the case files in his lab (heavily implied to be about the last 52 seasons), makes no indication the pictures in the History of Hope's Peak aren't photos, while the early files in his lab are illustrated.
    • To be fair to Shuichi, when he does figure out the truth, he's beyond shocked to even connect the dots by that point.
    • It could have been intended as a reward for Kokichi making it that far into the game, since his lab was going to be the last to open. Similar to how in Super Danganronpa 2 Nagito is given information about the first games's killing game for solving the funhouse puzzle. It's also possible it was left there accidentally by whoever was building the lab since the lab was supposed to remain locked due to Kokichi's death.
    • If Team Dangan Ronpa can manufacture lights that can implant fake memories and create a fake setting of a destroyed, uninhabitable outside world, they can probably create a fake history book complete with photorealistic pictures (possibly with the help of Tsumugi's cosplaying talents).
      • But why did they do this? The book basically tore apart their entire hoax by revealing the memories were fake. It seems like such an actively detrimental action to take, is all.
  • At the end of the game, Kibo destroys the school and part of the dome surrounding it. But as Shuichi and the others look up into the sky the camera pulls out to reveal the hole in the dome from the other side. Just wtf are we looking at? Setting aside the logos plastered all over it, the lighting we see looking out doesn't match the lighting we see looking in. There's light pouring into the hole when you look at it from the ground, but there's no sign of it's source as we pull out. In fact the surface of the dome looks shadowed. Are we back in the matrix after all? Did Kibo literally break the fourth wall?
     Second Trial 
  • How exactly did the inner tube end up in the swimming pool? Kirumi made it over the pool with the corpse, so then what? Did she fumble when untying the rope, and let the tube roll into the pool? This seems incredibly incompetent for someone who's portrayed as competent. And how did she not notice the cloth scrap either, considering that she was 'ultimate' maid with a great eyesight and cleaning skills? And if she did notice it, how is it that she couldn't figure out how to retrieve that from the pool, at least? Use a broom, or even a vacuum cleaner to suck it out of there. With those industrial vacuums she had, she probably could've lifted out the inner tube too. And nobody would've bat an eye if they saw Kirumi walking around with cleaning supplies. ...and even if she couldn't figure out a way to retrieve those, why didn't she try to cover that? She had access to the labs, laundry, and some of the rooms, could've thrown in something else to try to frame somebody else.
    • She most likely noticed, but as you said she couldn't retrieve it. The pool level was very low at the time and so it there must not have been anything in the pool area to use to reach it.
      • Not to mention, she was on a time limit, since she had to move Ryoma to the piranha tank, untie the ropeway and sneak out of the pool and get back to Ryoma's research lab to untie the cable from the window without bumping into anybody else - after all, she couldn't be sure when everybody would leave the Insect Meet and Greet and there were still several people running around, so had to hurry so she could use Kokichi's account as an alibi for where she was during Ryoma's time of death.
      • Yes, but what about afterwards? She had the rest of the night to clean it up, with a very low chance of being spotted.
  • If Kirumi was so determined to escape after receiving her motive video that she was willing to climb a thorny rope through a tunnel of sawblades if she had to, then why didn't she just skip the murder entirely and try escaping through the Death Road of Despair instead? She's bound to make it through eventually if she's that determined.
    Controlling Monokuma 
  • How are Monokuma and the Monokubs being controlled in this game? Clearly, Tsumugi isn't controlling them directly, since she can still be around when they're present. Are other members of Team Danganronpa controlling them, or are they AI-based? And what's Tsumugi's role, if not to control Monokuma? Why would the killing game end if she died?
    • If the events of the game really ARE some kind of reality gameshow, then Monokuma is controlled either via AI or via remote from someone off site involved in the game. (The reactions of the Monokubs leans towards AI.) Which means Tsumugi was giving orders either to the AI or to the person controlling him. The game ended because she was the "mastermind". And even if she wasn't, by the end there were no more monokubs and the machine for making Monokumas was destroyed anyway. There'd be no one to enforce the rules if there was just the one Monokuma.
    Chapter 5 Clue Errors 
  • The Swipe Pattern Bloodstain isn't visible in the Murder Video, and it definitely should be. For the last few frames, if nothing else.
  • The Swipe Pattern Bloodstain should have a detour up to the hydraulic press controls, which it doesn't. Even if Kaito took the time to clean up after himself (and across three games, nobody else has managed to clean up their bloodstains properly), there should still be some sort of irregularity, but it's a smooth drag from the bathroom to the press.
  • Finally, Maki stabbing the control panel and Kokichi setting off the Electrobomb are shown in the wrong order during the closing argument.
    Third Floor curtain 
This is just a minor thing that bugged me, but why is the third floor balcony of the third floor blocked by a curtain in Chapter 2 and 3, then open when you go visit Angie's lab at night, then blocked again the next day?
    Level of Control (End game spoilers) 
  • I have a lot of questions, but hopefully I can organize my thoughts enough so this makes sense. My main issue is, assuming that Tsumugi wasn't lying in the final trial, exactly how much control does Team Danganronpa have over the players and their actions? She claims she wrote all the "characters" and scripted their lines and emotions (Maki's feelings for Kaito for example), but if they can get so detailed, then why would Tsumugi be surprised by any of the players' actions? I get the audience being surprised, but Tsumugi is in on the project. If she had as much influence on the characters as she claims, she should have had it under control every step of the way, yet she makes a lot of mistakes.
    • Though Team Dangan Ronpa are able to completely remodel everyone's backstories, personalities, interests (and even relationships to an extent), and further direct them to do what they want them to do via more Flashback Lights, they probably aren't able to completely control a character's thoughts and actions in real time (aside from those of Kiibo). She was probably just stretching the truth to mentally break the remaining survivors.
  • And for that matter, why would she reveal this all to the audience? I figure Danganronpa is similar to reality tv, a simulated reality that relies heavily on clever editing (Motherkuma's function I assume) to create a story (there's no they broadcast every minute of the show live. That would be hours and hours of mundane footage). Nevertheless, part of the appeal of reality tv is that it presents itself as genuine, and even if most people know on some level the interactions are scripted to some degree, to admit this would destroy the illusion and the ratings. If everyone knows this is all scripted, what's the point in having "real fiction" as opposed to "actual fiction" with actors and special effects?
    • The producers and fans proabably wanted to take the series further and started introducing real people into it, developing the Flashback Lights so that there is not a boring moment in the show. The fact that there are fans who desperately want to be part of the show is likely a factor, too. As for the reveal that everything is just fiction? Well, meta themes have gotten pretty popular. Since Shirogane's and Team Dangan Ronpa's original plans were derailed by Ouma, they had to keep on improvising as Saihara started discovering the truth about the academy.
      • Still, it seems comparable to something like WWF. Everyone knows it's scripted, but if the wrestlers started talking about the script during a match, it'd completely kill the sense of immersion. Really hard to believe that they'd resort to that, no matter what. Especially with Tsumugi's constant costume-switching, which really hammered in to the viewers that it's just fiction.
    • Well, imagine that you collected 16 people who really wanted to be part of the game, and win. If these people would still have their old personalities, everyone would plot their murders on the first night, or it'd just end up an unbroadcastable blood bath. And if you're really peeved that they didn't make it as "actual fiction", at least Spike Chunsoft did.


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