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johnnye
topic
02:02:31 PM Sep 27th 2013
Any idea what the Misplaced Wildlife Zero-Context Example was referring to? (It's currently commented out).

If it's the bears, (A) A Wizard Did It and (B) Scotland had bears in the Iron Age, so even if they were portrayed as a native species (which to my knowledge, they aren't) they would be just another example of Anachronism Stew.
Audobonible
topic
07:01:31 PM Feb 7th 2013
I couldn't find any information about Malcolm II oF England. Who was he?
DaibhidC
09:03:13 AM Feb 8th 2013
edited by DaibhidC
No idea. As far as I can tell there were no English King Malcolms. Malcolm II of Scotland took the throne in 1005, which fits the "11th century", but since he wasn't English and didn't "take over" Scotland (although the period was characterised by constant succession wars between the two branches of the royal family, and he did take the throne by Kenneth III), I have no idea if that's what the troper was thinking of.

I'm also not sure about the assumption that Scottish noble ladies didn't wear similar dresses to English noble ladies until England "took over". As far as I'm aware there's not much evidence supporting or contradicting this, but it's not like Scotland was entirely disconnected from England during this period. I'm somewhat tempted to remove the whole passage.
AlvyFoster
topic
03:40:25 AM Jan 12th 2013
Merida took the potion and tricked her mother into drinking it, without even thinking about what it might do to her. All she knew about was that it could change her mind. In other words, she tried to brainwash her mother without even thinking of the damages it would bring. Plus, what if the witch had had other things in mind, or misunderstood what Merida wanted, and had actually given her POISON to solve her problems? Even though the result weren't too atrocious, we actually saw a child movie were the main character tried to poison her own mom!
johnnye
topic
10:40:00 AM Sep 20th 2012
  • Baleful Polymorph: Elinor and the triplets turn into bears, and the prince was turned into Mor'du.

This was deleted because the trope specifies that the result of the transformation be "usless in combat" - is that really a necessary condition of the trope? If so, it seems like missing supertrope syndrome, it's pretty bizarre to have a trope "someone is forcibly transformed into an animal that's useless in combat" and not to have "someone is forcibly transformed into an animal".
xPixelxDustx
03:56:43 PM Sep 20th 2012
From the laconic page: "A character is transformed into a harmless creature". So yes, it's a requirement. I suggest someone makes a Trope Repair discussion for the trope itself. In the meantime, delete from Brave's page.
LordGro
11:24:44 PM Feb 7th 2013
There has been a TRS. The definition of Baleful Polymorph is now (from the laconic): "A character is transformed into a shape that renders him powerless or unable to pursue his goals."

This should cover this example. I re-added it.
1774689
topic
02:52:49 PM Aug 5th 2012
I noticed some other stuff, amongst which Scotireland, a Shout-Out to Age of Empires with various stock sounds, one of the lord's sons talks in Old Irish, making him The Unintelligible. Then there is this reference to Ovid, the plot of a woman turned into a bear is awfully familiar with The Metamorphoses, although the story is slightly altered to include a Happy Ending.
Flavia
09:01:40 PM Dec 4th 2012
He is speaking in the Doric, a language known by the actor, Kevin Mc Kidd.
1774689
04:19:55 PM Jun 11th 2013
I've talked it over with some people who are into classical literature, it is strongly reminiscent of the story of Callisto and Arcas, with Callisto changing into a bear, but rather than the standard Ovid ending of tragedy, death and bloodshed, the two of them become the Ursa Maior and minor constellations. Does it ring a bell amongst any of you?
Platitudinous
topic
09:07:31 AM Jul 22nd 2012
Was one of the ingredients the witch threw into her cauldron a miniature Monsters Inc. Randall, or am I just crazy?
Eagal
topic
08:15:53 PM Jul 6th 2012
edited by Eagal
No Antagonist was removed with the claim that Mor'Du was way too much of a villain for it to qualify, but I challenge the claim for Mor'Du's villainy.

While he provides the basis for a villain in the show's mythology, during the events of the movie itself, he's nothing but a big pissed off bear; he's not actively malicious and not directly connected to the plot in any way.

The primary focus of the movie is the relationship between Merida and Helena.
DrPsyche
12:45:36 AM Jul 9th 2012
edited by DrPsyche
I'd actually argue that Mor'Du (Is the D really capital?) is an antagonist. He is the force/person who stands in the way of the protagonist and has to be overcome/beaten. That was the definition I was given in several fiction writing classes.
PaulA
08:24:02 AM Jul 11th 2012
The force that stands in Merida's way and needs to be overcome is her own character flaws. Mor'du doesn't cause anything; he just makes an already difficult situation more complicated.
DrPsyche
05:24:15 PM Jul 13th 2012
Well, her character flaws are what drives the film, but Mordu is still a threat that they need to overcome, he attacks them at the beginning, middle, and climax of the movie. Compare him to monstroso, the whale from Pinnochio. He wasn't a bad guy, but he ate them, and they had to make it out of him. The force that stood in Pinochio's way throughout the movie was his bad behavior, and him learning to do the right thing was how he overcame that.
FantiSci
topic
06:06:33 PM Jul 6th 2012
What's with the "Angus-is-a-Shire-horse" edit war? The official site says "Clydesdale", which seems to make more sense for a story set in Scotland (even if the breed wasn't developed until several centuries later). Does anyone state in the film that Angus is a Shire?

I'd be inclined just to change it back to Clydesdale, but there might be something in the actual film that confirms that he's a Shire (Brave isn't out in my part of the world yet...)
Blacksun388
04:41:26 PM Jul 28th 2012
Officially this matter is definitively settled. Angus is a Scottish Clydesdale and not a Shire Breed.
deimos415
topic
06:33:16 AM Jul 4th 2012
Just curious, does anyone else think Queen Elinor qualifies for a Deuteragonist trope addition to her listing? Didn't want to add something only I might've seen/interpreted as such.
Blacksun388
topic
02:07:33 PM Jun 25th 2012
If I may, where exactly is it said that Mor'du's name translates to 'death'? Mordu (as far as I can tell) is old french for 'bite' or 'bitten'. Can anyone confirm that for me? It's possible that the native Gaelic or Scots languages have a similar word I'm not aware of but that's as far as I've gotten.

That said, I freaking loved this film!
roblingt
01:54:18 AM Jun 27th 2012
"Mor" is Gaelic for 'big', and "Dubh" means 'black', so it could simply be a literal description?
Blacksun388
08:27:48 PM Jun 30th 2012
I guess that might do for now. I don't see exactly how it directly translates to 'death' as has been suggested on the page.
Blacksun388
09:40:41 PM Jun 30th 2012
I just found it. Scots Gaelic for death is "bàs" or "dul". All entries that say 'Mordu' is death is regrettably incorrect.
johnnye
10:30:55 AM Sep 20th 2012
They might have meant that it's evocative of "death" for English speakers due to Romance language influence. That can still be true even if it literally translates as something else in Gaelic.
ParadiscaCorbasi
topic
07:54:10 AM Jun 23rd 2012
edited by ParadiscaCorbasi
I would say the Witch wasn't really a villain.

She repeatedly refused the spell and even warned Merida that she retired from spellcraft because she had too many unsatisfied customers. She also kept her end of the deal by delivering every single woodcarving in the cottage to the castle after the credits, and she gave Merida the key to breaking the spell, even if Merida didn't grasp it as such.

So the bit about the Karma Houdini is not really accurate either. The Witch did only precisely as asked, and did right by Merida with the truth every step of the way.
BalunStormhands
04:05:15 PM Jun 23rd 2012
The Witch comes off as more of one of the The Fair Folk then a witch, especially since she seems to have met the prince who became Mor'du. Though she seems more Seelie than Unseelie, too. Which would fit the Celtic Mythology setting rather well.
DrPsyche
topic
09:46:53 PM Jun 22nd 2012
Ensemble Darkhorse: Who is it this time. I'm throwing my hat at the silent muscled guy who everyone thought was the oldest kilt showing lord's son. He was cool, and his funny background scenes were also neat (Catching the arrow, and the tug of war). My friends and I liked him the best.
ImaginalDisc
topic
12:02:15 PM Jun 22nd 2012
I added a reference, spoiler tag protected, to Death Equals Redemption, but it's not blue. :( I believe it's a valid addition.
Telcontar
moderator
12:32:53 PM Jun 22nd 2012
edited by Telcontar
It's a trope: Death Equals Redemption. Looks like you forgot to CamelCase it. Remember that links never show up in spoiler tags, as that could defeat th epurpose of the spoiler.
ImaginalDisc
12:44:16 PM Jun 22nd 2012
Ah. Gracias.
queenbean3
topic
07:47:03 AM May 30th 2012
Why are we spelling her name "Mérida?" Every single reliable source I've seen spells it as "Merida," including the official movie website. Where did the accent mark spelling come from? Anyway, I think we should change it to "Merida" since that's the correct, canon spelling.
SeptimusHeap
topic
10:39:39 AM May 27th 2012
This has 46 inbounds. Please don't cut it.
TwoGunAngel
topic
03:23:38 AM May 27th 2012
edited by TwoGunAngel
Fast Fry, you apparently haven't gotten the memo concerning animated movies in both Anime and Western Animation. They're being put in Anime/ and Western Animation/ respectively, and the Film/ namespaces are being cut for those works. If you want to cut a namespace for Brave, Film/ should be the one.
Telcontar
moderator
04:18:22 AM May 27th 2012
edited by Telcontar
I've PM'd him about it, since he was also changing WesternAnimation.Brave to Film.Brave on index pages, thus de-indexing this page.

Edit: Response gotten; he now thinks the Film/ redirect should be cutlisted. Personally, I don't see a problem with having it — it makes the page easier to find.

Edit #2: Hopefully, everything's sorted now.
queenbean3
topic
04:13:52 PM Mar 14th 2012
Two questions; First, should we change the page image now that new posters are out? Second, when can we make a character page?
Telcontar
moderator
01:34:12 PM Mar 23rd 2012
First: I see no reason to – it isn't standard. If the new posters are "better" in some way, then sure and it'll probably be a free change, though.

Second: Any time you like.
FinalStarman
topic
07:23:59 PM Feb 29th 2012
edited by FinalStarman
Okay, regardless of what color Merida's dress really is, let's just pretend for now that we can all agree that it is blue. Now, does it fit the trope True Blue Femininity?
helterskelter
09:53:49 PM Feb 29th 2012
I imagine it does. Queen Elinor is the one who apparently chooses Merida's outfits. It's she who wants Merida to be soft and feminine. Merida clearly doesn't like dresses.
DragonQuestZ
03:37:13 PM Mar 1st 2012
Well if it is, then it's an Invoked Trope from the mother, and a Defied Trope from the daughter. But we still need to determine the color, and it still might be best to wait until the film comes out.
queenbean3
06:21:43 PM Mar 1st 2012
Merida didn't like ONE dress, and that was because it restricted the movement in her arms. The only other outfit we've seen her in is another blue dress, though a much darker shade with some green in it. It also looks like she's torn the sleeves at the elbows and shoulders.
Telcontar
moderator
12:54:16 AM Mar 2nd 2012
In the merchandise, she is clearly seen wearing a blue dress, so I agree with what Dragon said about the mother invoking it.
Goldstone
04:30:09 AM Mar 6th 2012
The first dress is turquoise, the other one looks dark green.
helterskelter
12:32:36 PM Apr 28th 2013
edited by 216.99.32.43
Now that the movie has been out for quite a bit, we can decisively say it's blue. It's colored blue in costumes, concept art, at the parks, in the merch above, in the tapestry, and in the Disney Princess line. At no point does the dress look blue in the movie. I think this is a definite bias from people assuming we're looking at a Redhead In Green, or your monitor is off.
MagBas
01:41:12 PM Apr 28th 2013
edited by 216.99.32.43
...
sense
06:37:28 AM May 9th 2013
edited by 70.33.253.42
Her dress is a shade of green. The only blue dress she wore is her royal turquoise one.

Her dress is just a slight bluish shade of green. This looks more green, than it does blue. Also take a look at Merida's dress color in contrast to everything blue. It's green, it's not another blue.
helterskelter
07:01:29 AM May 9th 2013
No. It's blue. There is absolutely no way you can translate all of that official merchandise and art into green. Your monitor settings are off or you simply don't perceive color correctly. This is her dress in the line. You're actually trying to tell me that's green? That that could possibly be interpreted as green? You cannot possibly mean this is supposed to be green.

Also, sense, you are an obvious sockpuppet, once again.
sense
07:04:19 AM May 9th 2013
edited by 70.33.253.43
What sockpuppet? Of what? Also that's a pretty greenish dress she's wearing.

What about this picture. You haven't refuted any of the pictures I showed. All you showed is an irrelevant sketch, and her redesign. How's redesign outfit blue? It looks closer to Mulan and Ariel's dress colors, than it does Snow White and Cinderella's dress colors.
Telcontar
moderator
07:13:26 AM May 9th 2013
She has some dresses which are bluey greeny turquoisey, including that latest picture you've provided, sense, but she also has these undeniably blue ones.
helterskelter
07:15:30 AM May 9th 2013
edited by 216.99.32.43
Open the images in Paint, get the eyedropper, and lighten the color from the color editor. In each and every single case, it is a shade of blue. I personally checked.

I do not need to refute anything. They're blue. Nothing you provided is green. They're blue. Showing me the sliver of a dress hidden behind a bunch of others ones is not saying they're green. I gave you a clear picture of the official dress, which is blue. And the concept art? The concept art is pretty damn relevant, considering it's just showing the flat colors without any lighting tricks. EDIT: And it's not early concept art. It's final.

For the record, some people have color blindness that prevents them from recognizing differences between shades of blue and green, or grew up without being told to emphasize the difference. In fact, in some cultures, Green is Blue, and they're not even considered a different color (in the way that pink is a tint of red). It's quite possible that you are physically incapable of detecting the difference in such dark shades.

And you're a sockpuppet of Goldstone and the other twenty accounts you've made.
lu127
moderator
07:26:22 AM May 9th 2013
For the love of all that is holy, enough. The next time I see fights over what colour a fictional character's dress is, I'm drawing the line. This discussion is closed.
Telcontar
moderator
07:29:46 AM May 9th 2013
Yup; sorry.
sense
07:36:13 AM May 9th 2013
Is this Goldstone active or not? if not, than no one's a sockpuppet of his/her.

What images? Provide all the images you used. Also, aren't you suppose to lighten the entire image and not random pixel colors.

Also explain how this here dress is greenish shade of blue, and not a bluish shade of green.

Oh, and the Disney Wiki also says her dress is green. Now how on earth can anyone write green nd stay like that, if her dress was blue all this time? Could it be because her dress is not blue?!
MrDeath
07:37:49 AM May 9th 2013
A. That's not a valid argument in regards to a sockpuppet at all. B. When a mod comes in and says knock it off, that means knock it off.
fenyx4
topic
09:48:32 AM Feb 23rd 2012
edited by fenyx4
Never mind; I believe I have figured out how to properly position the picture. Now we just need a good caption...
fenyx4
topic
09:43:03 AM Feb 23rd 2012
Sorry for the numerous image-positioning edits - for some reason, the image seems to be stretching the page to the right a bit, but I'm unsure how to position it properly so that "stretching" effect doesn't occur... If anyone can position it better, please attempt to do so. Thanks in advance.
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