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donteatacowman3
topic
02:32:24 AM Aug 6th 2014
There's a small Assassin's Creed mention about how much it averts the trope. I'm no expert, so I'm not sure what the standard is for Flynning versus real sword fighting. Here's an example fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VjCA97S-0s But depending on how you play the game, there's a lot of loud sword clashing with comparatively little actual death, even though you're sword fighting to kill.

So you're swinging around a sword and clanging against the opponent's an awful lot, with no real danger of breaking or dulling your sword. If you play defensive, you can do this for a really long time—just catching and deflecting your opponent's sword with your own.

Is that Flynning? Or is it closer to a real sword fight?
SeptimusHeap
02:50:03 AM Aug 6th 2014
That is so fast that I can barely see it.
LogoP
02:52:39 AM Aug 6th 2014
Seconded.
SeptimusHeap
03:18:09 AM Aug 6th 2014
I've pulled the entry since it's a ZCE anyhow:

Maybe this forum topic can work out a better example.
Thecommander236
topic
10:35:48 AM Jan 12th 2013
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=lj2k8ofcylww2973pf4ib5po

Deleting this. Add examples from there to here if necessary.
Larkmarn
06:18:29 PM Jan 12th 2013
Don't. They're not the same thing. The YKTTW is basically an Artistic License sports, while Flynning is about actual combat.

Now, whether the other thing is tropable? That's another question. But they definitely aren't the same thing at all.
Thecommander236
08:19:07 PM Jan 12th 2013
Got it. Thanks for the second opinion. As stated, I deleted that. It was old, but I wasn't sure if the examples were related.
lu127
moderator
topic
09:09:25 AM Dec 1st 2012
Wall of natter detected. Needs rewriting:

  • Referenced in "Prince Caspian"
    "It was not like the silly fighting you see with broad swords on the stage. It was not even like the rapier fighting which you sometimes see rather better done. This was real broad-sword fighting."
    • Unfortunately it then goes to explain how in this kind of swordfighting you aim for the enemy's unarmoured legs, and they must quickly jump out of the way. Any real swordfighter knows that no matter what the style, sacrificing your balance for acrobatics is the worst tactic imaginable.
    • It does, however unintentionally, point towards a valid technique. When using two-handed swords, going for an adversary's legs is a bad idea. Your upper openings are unprotected, and your sword makes a diagonal line towards your adversary while theirs makes a horizontal one. In short, striking to the legs opens you up and reduces your range. The correct response to this, according to the medieval German style, is to step out of the way and strike to their head.
    • The exact type of sword-fighting is not well described, since C.S. Lewis has the characters in hauberks of mail but most illustrations show something that looks like an arming sword being used in one hand. It doesn't matter, as 1) nearly every style of swordplay would have the opponent simply avoid the low cut while using their greater reach to counter high, 2) Edmund is supposedly at a disadvantage when doing this to Trumpkin, since he's taller, raising the question of why try that technique, 2a) and the mechanics of that would mean Trumpkin should have a hell of a time trying to get close enough to try it, and, 3) why are they risking a medieval form of I Just Shot Marvin in the Face with deadly weapons? C.S. Lewis never describes them checking their movements to avoid devastating, crippling injuries, something that should have been done even if they were too reckless to find old training gear in the castle, use cut branches, or just realize this is a terrible idea. Aside from damaging their gear, they could sideline, maim, or kill a friend. Presumably a former Narnian king and warrior dwarf learned how to respect their weapons at some point.
    • Lewis might actually be partially justified, wound pattern analysis of the remains of the dead recovered from the Battle of Visby shows that the majority had some form of leg injury, in most cases not sufficient to be life threatening especially through armour, but maybe just enough to knock someone off their feet, where upon they can be dispatched them with a blow to the head. At its heart its a technique to get through hordes of red shirts quickly.
FireWalk
topic
01:43:54 PM Oct 21st 2012
Mercilessly cut this load out of Star Wars Lightsabre Natter:

  • Actually, the initial Star Wars standoff between Vader and Kenobi was fairly decent swordfighting, both opponents watching for an opening before attacking, jockeying for position. It Got Worse from there, though.
  • Taken Up to Eleven when one of the duelists have two lightsabers, and they just use the second one to miror the first one. Especially obvious when they have a stand off with blades crossed, it never occurs to them to take the second saber and go for the head.
  • Flynning is remotely justifiable in lightsaber combat, since lightsabers do not have crossguards (or indeed any protective measures), despite a much bigger need for them. Traditional fencing techniques would quickly result in the dismemberment of both combatants. Another potential justification is that the Laser Blade of a lightsaber presumably has no weight to it, possibly allowing for a lot of fancy moves you wouldn't be able to do with a weighty metal blade.
  • Some of the Jedi *cough* Anakin *cough* also have a tendency to stretch out their arm and point the tip of their lightsaber at the opponent's throat, holding the tip about six inches away. Then they act surprised when the opponent jumps away or pulls out a weapon of their own and the two inches they gain by lunging don't help. Ahsoka actually did it right early on, holding her lightsaber lengthwise against the enemy's throat with her arm bent so she could extend it, only she held it backwards.
    • It is arguably handwaved in the Star Wars verse as The Force is said to partially control its users
  • One thing that should not be present in light sabre combat, however, is feints. Against a person able to use the Force properly, a feint won't work, and against someone who can't use the Force properly, they can't be needed.
    • Not quite; the Force might be in conflict with their other senses, and in the middle of a fight to the death even a master might distracted, to saying nothing of the many novices and intermediates that pop up in the series, or characters like General Grevious who are master lightsaber fighters but cannot use the Force at all. There is still a level of skill involved and though lightsaber combat relies on prescience, some Jedi are more prescient than others, and many that are skilled with a lightsaber are less likely to rely on that power. Essentially, there are lots of people in-between those two extremes.
  • Thoroughly mocked by this video
Luminoth187
topic
06:06:34 PM Aug 25th 2012
There's an intentional difference between choreographed/theatrical/TV/film swordfighting, and the "sport" of fencing. "Flynning" is not an accurate portrayal of the sport, and it's not trying to be. The goal of theatrical swordplay is to entertain, and to tell a story. Although it is true that even some swordfights for TV/film are poorly/terribly choreographed, the overall goal is still the same. Roberta Brown (who has experience in both the sport of fencing AND choreographing swordplay) gives an excellent explanation about the differences between the two:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jem2e8rv3U4

Amy Boyle also gives some insight about the differences in target areas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8InW9mL6z20
Luminoth187
06:09:02 PM Aug 25th 2012
...Wrong link for the second video. It's actually this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbzprcT_fi8
Falcon505
topic
04:27:58 AM Apr 28th 2012
The Samurai fighting in the Music Video for "Too Close," by Alex Clare is painful.
mzytryck
topic
04:53:58 AM Feb 24th 2012
Does anyone know what broadsword fighting is meant to look like? The swordfighting in Lord of the Rings, Narnia, and Game of Thrones looks pretty good to me, but I know absolutely nothing about that style. Can anyone help?
LooneyToons
06:23:41 AM Mar 12th 2012
edited by LooneyToons
Check out the archived discussion (the button up at the top right under the "collapse" and "back" buttons). In the months (years!) after I wrote this trope, there was discussion back and forth on that very topic. I don't know if any of the video links are still active, but the text should help.
snowburnt
topic
09:02:52 AM Jul 13th 2011
Is the Princess Bride epic sword fight at all realistic? I'm not an expert but it doesn't appear as flashy as most flynning examples, though the end result is pretty similar.
MrDeath
09:07:24 AM Jul 13th 2011
It was made up by the two actors rather than anyone with actual fencing experience, so I'm gonna go with 'no'. Cool as hell, yes, but not realistic.
becquerel
07:44:50 PM Dec 26th 2011
The two actors were taught how to fence for the film, but they pretty much just run through a basic warmup drill.
LooneyToons
06:22:22 AM Mar 12th 2012
Oddly enough, all the citations they make in the dialogue are real — those are all real masters of swordsmanship and various tactics/moves/whatnot. William Goldman (author of both the original book and the screenplay) definitely Did His Research. Even so, IIRC, he always intended for it to look like the classic movies anyway.
cg12345
topic
09:36:56 PM Jan 7th 2011
Didn't want to add to the natter, but I just a thought about lightsaber fighting — the blade is made of energy, right? So the only part of the weapon that has any weight to it is the handle. Is it possible that the decreased weight / balance / whatever would alter the way you fought with a weapon like that? It strikes me you could do a lot of moves quicker if 80% of your weapon doesn't weigh anything, so it would lead to a fighting style with a lot of quick attacks and the opportunity for flashy moves that would look a lot like flynning. Sort of an in-universe justified trope, I guess?
ImaginationInterpreture
11:45:54 AM Dec 9th 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgAlQuqzl8o This is more Flynning for lightsabers. And it's also Instrument of Murder
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