History Main / Flynning

22nd May '18 8:58:55 AM Ma35tro
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** For all that it looks spectacular (and the dialogue cites real fencing masters and styles), the great battle between Inigo and Westley is almost entirely Flynning. [[WordOfGod The screenplay]] even says that the ''characters'' are Flynning; Wesley and Inigo both being masters with nothing personal driving their fight, they want to enjoy it as it is so rare for them to encounter someone else on their level.

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** For all that it looks spectacular (and the dialogue cites real fencing masters and styles), the great battle between Inigo and Westley is almost entirely Flynning. [[WordOfGod The screenplay]] even says that [[IAmNotLeftHanded the ''characters'' are Flynning; Flynning]]; Wesley and Inigo both being masters with nothing personal driving their fight, they want to enjoy it as it is so rare for them to encounter someone else on their level.
14th May '18 5:14:01 AM jormis29
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* In ''Series/{{Highlander}}: The Series'', this is done almost every episode. This is partly due to RuleOfCool, and partly because many of the guest stars had never before picked up a sword in their lives, so they had to rely upon Adrian Paul and the stunt coordinator to make the fights look exciting. In one commentary bit, it's mentioned that there's an easy way to tell whether the actors in a particular episode are any good with a sword: if the fight scene has a lot of cuts and changes in angle, it's done to disguise the weakness in an actor's form or to switch more capable stunt doubles in. If there are [[TheOner long periods without a cut or change in camera angle]], then it means the actors for that fight were good enough to avoid all that.

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* In ''Series/{{Highlander}}: The Series'', this is done almost every episode. This is partly due to RuleOfCool, and partly because many of the guest stars had never before picked up a sword in their lives, so they had to rely upon Adrian Paul Creator/AdrianPaul and the stunt coordinator to make the fights look exciting. In one commentary bit, it's mentioned that there's an easy way to tell whether the actors in a particular episode are any good with a sword: if the fight scene has a lot of cuts and changes in angle, it's done to disguise the weakness in an actor's form or to switch more capable stunt doubles in. If there are [[TheOner long periods without a cut or change in camera angle]], then it means the actors for that fight were good enough to avoid all that.
4th Apr '18 7:01:14 AM jormis29
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** The lightsaber battles from the original trilogy, dubbed "budget kendo" in some circles. The original idea behind the lightsabers was that they were difficult to handle, which limited their choreography to mostly slashes and parries. There were technical limitations involved as well as skill limitations. Every duel in the Original Trilogy involves Darth Vader. In ''Film/ANewHope'', the Vader mask left actor David Prowse with such a restricted field of view that he had trouble even seeing ''the person'' he was dueling with, never mind trying to fight. The props themselves were also fragile, preventing the use of more aggressive and intense strikes. For ''Film/TheEmpireStrikesBack'' and ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi'', the fighting was done by fencer and choreographer Bob Anderson, who was much better at it, and the props were sturdier, but he still had difficulty seeing.

to:

** The lightsaber battles from the original trilogy, dubbed "budget kendo" in some circles. The original idea behind the lightsabers was that they were difficult to handle, which limited their choreography to mostly slashes and parries. There were technical limitations involved as well as skill limitations. Every duel in the Original Trilogy involves Darth Vader. In ''Film/ANewHope'', the Vader mask left actor David Prowse Creator/DavidProwse with such a restricted field of view that he had trouble even seeing ''the person'' he was dueling with, never mind trying to fight. The props themselves were also fragile, preventing the use of more aggressive and intense strikes. For ''Film/TheEmpireStrikesBack'' and ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi'', the fighting was done by fencer and choreographer Bob Anderson, who was much better at it, and the props were sturdier, but he still had difficulty seeing.
20th Mar '18 5:21:49 PM TheBigBopper
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Flynning exists, in live-action at least, so that non-expert actors can put on an entertaining show without causing RealLife injuries. The first problem is that most actors can't fence, and most fencers can't act. Neither skill is something you can teach someone properly in a short amount of time, and audiences are more likely to recognize (and be bothered by) wooden acting than unconvincing swordplay, so in most cases choreographers must try their best to teach people who already know how to act how to ''pretend'' they know how to fence. Usually the actors learn the sequence of moves in a fight by rote without a good understanding of the underlying principles behind them. There is usually little time to rehearse fights before filming, and with the number of behind-the-scenes moving parts that go into filming it's not uncommon for some last-minute problem to make them throw out the choreography and fall back on improvisation.

to:

Flynning exists, in live-action at least, so that non-expert actors can put on an entertaining show without causing RealLife injuries. The first problem is that most actors can't aren't trained to fence, and most fencers can't aren't trained to act. Neither skill is something you can teach someone properly in a short amount of time, and audiences are more likely to recognize (and be bothered by) wooden acting than unconvincing swordplay, so in most cases choreographers must try their best to teach people who already know how to act how to ''pretend'' they know how to fence. Usually the actors learn the sequence of moves in a fight by rote without a good understanding of the underlying principles behind them. There is usually little time to rehearse fights before filming, and with the number of behind-the-scenes moving parts that go into filming it's not uncommon for some last-minute problem to make them throw out the choreography and fall back on improvisation.
20th Mar '18 3:34:37 PM nombretomado
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%%* {{Egregious}}ly [[note]][[DrinkingGame/TVTropes Drink!]][[/note]] used in ''Film/{{Spartacus}}''.

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%%* {{Egregious}}ly JustForFun/{{Egregious}}ly [[note]][[DrinkingGame/TVTropes Drink!]][[/note]] used in ''Film/{{Spartacus}}''.
5th Mar '18 9:35:07 AM CosmicFerret
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* The brief stickfight between Adams and Dickinson in ''[[SeventeenSeventySix 1776]]'' is rather unconvincing Flynning when it's not just the two men grappling.

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* The brief stickfight between Adams and Dickinson in ''[[SeventeenSeventySix ''[[Film/SeventeenSeventySix 1776]]'' is rather unconvincing Flynning when it's not just the two men grappling.
4th Mar '18 3:49:47 AM jormis29
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** The Disney TV Version of ''Series/{{Zorro}}'' in the 1950s somewhat Downplayed it as well, as Guy Williams, who played {{Franchise/Zorro}}, was actually a champion fencer. His Zorro used a more accurate fencing style, though still stylized to avoid injury.

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** The Disney TV Version of ''Series/{{Zorro}}'' in the 1950s somewhat Downplayed it as well, as Guy Williams, Creator/GuyWilliams, who played {{Franchise/Zorro}}, was actually a champion fencer. His Zorro used a more accurate fencing style, though still stylized to avoid injury.
19th Feb '18 12:57:38 AM Jormungar
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** The lightsaber battles from the original trilogy, dubbed "budget kendo" in some circles. The original idea behind the lightsabers was that they were difficult to handle, which limited their choreography to mostly slashes and parries. There were technical limitations involved as well as skill limitations. Every duel in the Original Trilogy involves Darth Vader. In ''Film/ANewHope'', the Vader mask left actor David Prowse with such a restricted field of view that he had trouble even ''seeing'' the person he was dueling with, never mind trying to fight. The props themselves were also fragile, preventing the use of more aggressive and intense strikes. For ''Film/TheEmpireStrikesBack'' and ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi'', the fighting was done by fencer and choreographer Bob Anderson, who was much better at it, and the props were sturdier, but he still had difficulty seeing.

to:

** The lightsaber battles from the original trilogy, dubbed "budget kendo" in some circles. The original idea behind the lightsabers was that they were difficult to handle, which limited their choreography to mostly slashes and parries. There were technical limitations involved as well as skill limitations. Every duel in the Original Trilogy involves Darth Vader. In ''Film/ANewHope'', the Vader mask left actor David Prowse with such a restricted field of view that he had trouble even ''seeing'' the person seeing ''the person'' he was dueling with, never mind trying to fight. The props themselves were also fragile, preventing the use of more aggressive and intense strikes. For ''Film/TheEmpireStrikesBack'' and ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi'', the fighting was done by fencer and choreographer Bob Anderson, who was much better at it, and the props were sturdier, but he still had difficulty seeing.
6th Feb '18 4:34:19 PM nombretomado
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* Averted in ''Film/TheThreeMusketeers1973'' and its sequel, 'The Four Musketeers': Not only was the swordplay highly realistic (with moves like grabbing the opponent's blade, and hitting them with one's cloak), but all the stars were trained swordsmen. Creator/ChristopherLee admitted in an interview that he had to remind OliverReed during one of their fights that he wasn't really trying to kill him. It didn't help that the swords they used weren't foils.

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* Averted in ''Film/TheThreeMusketeers1973'' and its sequel, 'The Four Musketeers': Not only was the swordplay highly realistic (with moves like grabbing the opponent's blade, and hitting them with one's cloak), but all the stars were trained swordsmen. Creator/ChristopherLee admitted in an interview that he had to remind OliverReed Creator/OliverReed during one of their fights that he wasn't really trying to kill him. It didn't help that the swords they used weren't foils.
21st Jan '18 7:10:14 PM TheBigBopper
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* Any sword fight that has rules to prevent injury or that is scored as a competition is almost flynning by definition; the only question--and it is a controversial question--is to what degree it does or doesn't simulate a real sword fight. Obviously, even students training for real combat cannot learn or practice under the same conditions as an actual bloody fight, or else they would get maimed or killed before they even attained proficiency. You have to watch their practice and make sure they aren't trying to kill each other, that they learn to respect the blade and aren't doing things like eye-gouging and biting. In that sense, the first defense against injury is voluntary restraint and control. Blunt and foiled swords were the first compromise in equipment to improve safety, and already this creates a huge difference in how the fencers will behave in sparring, because they will be a ''heck'' of a lot more cautious and less prone to being LeeroyJenkins if they know their opponent's sword can wound them. Then you introduce things like masks and padded armor, which almost inevitably lead to more reckless tactics since the fear of injury is lessened--although the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation#Peltzman_effect Peltzman effect]] can ironically lead to ''more'' injury when the fighters learn to rely on the armor instead of self-control and start hitting each other as hard as they can. Add rules against grappling, right-of-way, designated target areas, and before you know it it's a slippery slope.

to:

* Any sword fight that has rules to prevent injury or that is scored as a competition is almost a downplayed version of flynning almost by definition; the only question--and it is a controversial question--is to what degree it does or doesn't simulate a real sword fight. Obviously, even students training for real combat cannot learn or practice under the same conditions as an actual bloody fight, or else they would get maimed or killed before they even attained proficiency. You have to watch their practice and make sure they aren't trying to kill each other, that they learn to respect the blade and aren't doing things like eye-gouging and biting. In that sense, the first defense against injury is voluntary restraint and control. Blunt and foiled swords were the first compromise in equipment to improve safety, and already this creates a huge difference in how the fencers will behave in sparring, because they will be a ''heck'' of a lot more cautious and less prone to being LeeroyJenkins if they know their opponent's sword can wound them. Then you introduce things like masks and padded armor, which almost inevitably lead to more reckless tactics since the fear of injury is lessened--although the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation#Peltzman_effect Peltzman effect]] can ironically lead to ''more'' injury when the fighters learn to rely on the armor instead of self-control and start hitting each other as hard as they can. Add rules against grappling, right-of-way, designated target areas, and before you know it it's a slippery slope.
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