Discussion Characters / RWBY

I've asked the RWBY forum thread here.

I've asked on the RWBY forum thread where we should trope them. I've put the post here.

What do you mean?

I'm referring to the spoiler tags for Walking Spoiler or Late-Arrival Spoiler characters. According to Spoilers Off:

Given that, I think we could strip the spoiler tags for the Walking Spoiler or Late-Arrival Spoiler characters and put a note that says "All spoilers will be left unmarked." Thoughts?

We don't have any spoiler tags except for whatever current volume is airing, and that's more about protecting current volume spoilers than the characters themselves. I don't think this is an issue that the RWBY character pages have.

Besides, I don't think we've got any Walking Spoiler characters, do we? With Late-Arrival Spoiler, we don't really have entire characters, except maybe Salem. However, we don't seem to be treating Salem as a Late-Arrival Spoiler character, so her spoiler-tagging is just the same as all the others (current volume tagging only).

I personally don't care whether the character pages are "current volume spoilers only" or stripped to be Spoilers Off, so I'm happy to go with whatever the consensus decides. I'm just observing that the RWBY character pages don't have the over-suppression issues for LAS and WS that the Administrivia guidance is designed to address.

Hmm, I see.

Why don't you ask on the RWBY Forum for more thoughts? You might get more responses than on a discussion page. If you also put a link to your post here, anyone who does come to the discussion page will know where to go to add their thoughts (or they can add their thoughts here, and you can collect all the responses from both locations).

Gotcha. I’ll go ask there.

Sounds good to me.

Any opinion on eliminating the notes vs. keeping them as regular notes? I think if the recap pages are linked, there would not be much use for them anymore, except making checking the volume/episode number slightly easier for readers.

Another alternative could be listing them parenthetically:

Debut: "Ruby Rose" (Volume 1 Episode 1)

Now that I've thought of it, I think I lean towards this method, myself.

I lean towards the parenthetical option, mainly because people who don't want to be spoiled aren't going to want to visit recap pages, where spoilers are guaranteed. Episode titles are meaningless to casual browsers who don't know the work, or even casual followers of a show who don't go around memorising episode titles, and therefore are ZCE with regard to telling people where in a show's run history that episode actually occurs. The less clicking and hovering needed to convey the information, the better. So, having the recap link + parentheses seems to be the best of both worlds to me.

That's just my thoughts on the matter, however.

I also agree that we should try cutting down the Word Cruft and the potential Wall of Text; it’s part of my cleanup efforts. Maybe we should ask on the RWBY forum?

Courtesy thread to the RWBY forum thread, since not everyone knows their way there.

And, yes, I agree. They need to be toned down. And, yes, I say that with full awareness that I'm one of the biggest problems for this issue.

Flagging: Does anyone have any responses?

Now that I've seen this, I feel that the groupings make sense, but the titles are entirely illogical. Why name the pages after the continents when naming them after the kingdoms would be much more pertinent. Continents are barely plot important, kingdoms very much are.

See my response to your first post at the top of the page.

There were months of discussion about the best way to organise the character pages, including votes. In the end, the majority of people went with a continent split because there's been so much exploration of the world outside kingdoms. You can't trope a non-Kingdom location inside a page that's supposedly dedicated to a Kingdom.

The Kingdoms do not align to continental boundaries. They are relatively small (by continent standards) protected regions located within certain continents. Elsewhere on these continents are other locations where humans and Faunus try to survive, often without a kingdom's protection.

She's on the Kingdoms character page under the Mistral section (Others).

Other seems to be the best option.

The RWBY Forum thread settled on the Kingdoms page (Mistral) because she is the symbol of Mistral (the Relic of Knowledge is the Kingdom's motif).

The 'Other' Page is for franchise troping (manga, video games, etc.), so nothing from the main show should be on that page.

The 'Historical' Page is for two things: Characters who are deceased in the current story and who are only dealt with posthumously, such as Ren's parents, Ruby's mother or Weiss's grandfather, and myths/legends that have been detailed in the show that are relevant to the story's plot.

There was a discussion on the RWBY forum thread about how tropers should handle the fact that RWBY is now released to the general public one week after sponsors receive it. On the basis of how some other fandoms handle these kind of staggered releases, the consensus was to ask First Members to withhold troping episodes for a single week until it's been released to the general public other the general public (which is the majority of people) would have to wait entire months before they could visit the trope pages.

As a compromise, the character and work pages have the restriction, but the Moments and the Recap pages can be troped by First Members right out of the gate.

Please see the RWBY forum thread for further information, as this is where the subject was discussed and agreed.

Well, the Administrivia Zero-Context Example page tells us what a ZCE is.

As far as I can see, the original troper was in the wrong to uncomment a load of ZCE examples without adding any context to them, which also defied the instruction at the top of the page which tells people not to do that. The troper that restored all the tags could have done a proper edit reason, but everything he restored tags to is definitely ZCE.

Which entries were you thinking of? We can certainly work together to give them proper context and get them legitimately untagged. I'm happy to help do that.

I'm not sure I know what this subject is but; Are you at least editing a trope discription if it's badly worded and replacing a wrong trope with the correct trope? Basicly are you trying to "fix what can be fixed" and not "destroy all imperfection", I'm not accusing anyone but I've seen more than a few edits on this site like that (IDK if anyone here did them).

It's about some Zero-Context Examples edits on the Creatures of Grimm page. I don't know if Taxima has alerted the tropers who made the edits they're concerned about. I only saw this thread by accident, so the tropers concerned may not know it exists.

Suggest it on the forum thread. The current page splits were discussed and agreed there (although Ilia's move wasn't). I'm fine with any sensible split.

I assume you mean Mistral instead of Vacuo for Team SSSN and Menagerie references, such as the Belladonnas?

Team SSSN is from Mistral’s Haven Academy. Sun was born in Vacuo, but moved to Mistral. They should go under Mistral. That’s the only issue I have with this.

Yes, sorry, Mistral for SSSN. As for the Belladonnas, it's not hard to add a subtitle for it:

Island of Menagerie

As you may have guessed, forum answers are near-unanimous save for Lovecraftian, who brings valid points against the splitting. What do you think about it? Is it too early to split up the kingdoms?

I'd keep it simple. It's easier to update with each new volume. When Volume 6 starts, the spoiler warning will be updated and all spoiler tags from Volume 5 entries will be removed.

Right, so would "Any spoiler regarding the first four/five volumes will be unmarked" work as well?

I was the one that changed Oscar's image, not Rebel.

I posted a discussion on whether I could change it on the page, but since nobody answered for a long time, I thought there'd be no problem.

I don't particularly mind the standard, if that's the thing I can edit the new images to the standard, if no one minds, it's just that Oscar's image was too dark and I thought one with better lighting would be better. I also liked Qrow's new image, if sizing is the problem, then that can be easily fixed

1.) Probably move it to its own page since the show's not canon. 2.) That's misuse of Does Not Like Spam (apparently).

Actually, including "foreign" dub actor credits on Character pages is very common on this site, especially for Anime (in which case the "foreign" dub would be the English dub).

I really see no reason why the Japanese VA's should not be credited.

Yeah, we even include OTHER languages other than english and japanese even!

That's my point, though. We only include other voice credits on anime because those were the initial voices. RWBY's initial voices were the English ones, therefore there's no point in including the Japanese ones. And again, if we're including EVERY voice for THESE characters, why aren't shows like MLP or Avatar or The Simpsons (popular shows that have all gotten Japanese dubs) also getting credits for voices outside the US like Naruto, Bleach, and One Piece are for theirs?

There's nothing stopping anyone from adding foreign voice credits for MLP, Avatar, or any US-produced show. It's just that no one has gotten around to doing it. That most of this wiki's users are English speakers probably has a lot to do with that.

There is no reason to remove the Japanese VA's from these entries if people want to add them. Your only reason seems to be "Other pages don't do this." I just can't see that as a legitimate reason for removing them. There is no site policy that states they can't be included. And other tropers evidently care about them enough to have added them to begin with. I've seen no one else saying that they should be removed.

Yeah, they're fine to keep. In fact, the flip side of the argument is "why bother to remove them? They don't hurt anything." As far as I can see, there's no point to removing foreign VA credits since AFAIK they are not against wiki policy, and that's what matters.

Given Taxes' silence and the opinions of the other tropers, I'm prepared to assume consensus on the matter has been established. No objections to re-adding the Japanese VA's?

Do it.

Maybe an all-encompassing "Other Academies" label, rather than sub-pages for each school?

Yeah, that makes sense

No, it should not be there. Alliteration is not just a shared letter.

I can't find anything in the description of Fashionable Asymmetry which supports the idea that it has to be an In-Universe conscious choice by the character themselves (although given it's a character/costume design trope, it'll always be a choice on the part of the character designer(s)...).

Besides, if he's too busy rushing around to dress himself properly, isn't that as much a practical reason for it as needing to wear asymmetrical gear or only having a prosthetic on one side (and not worrying about your appearance is technically still an aesthetic choice)? Tropes Are Flexible, and there's a reason his outfit's asymmetrical.

Perhaps there's a case for rejigging the trope's description, but as it stands there's no reason Oobleck doesn't count. The best thing to do (in my humble opinion, of course) is to put the example back and (if you think FA needs more work on the description) take the trope to TRS.

I do think we have to have a trope called "Messy Clothes" or something...

There might be a case for rejigging the trope's description, or perhaps the trope is also badly named if it's supposed to include people who are just untidy/messy. At the moment, it doesn't feel like a trope that should apply to someone that's just messy - that seems like the opposite of what the trope is trying to be.

I notice that the Messy Hair trope basically fits, except for the problem of it being hair-focused, and Oobleck's hair wouldn't fit that trope even if the message his general appearance sends out does fit.

Perhaps there's something in between these two tropes that we're missing?

Well, as I said; my thinking is that "fashionable" can be taken broadly (it can refer to a lack of fashion sense or lack of interest in being fashionable - what matters is that the asymmetry is related to fashion). Shaving your head or choosing to have a bald spot are both still fashion related choices that are limited by one's circumstances, for example.

Speaking of which, it looks like we could use a "Dishevelled appearance means busy/odd" supertrope either way (that's basically what I was going for when I first added the FA example), so I'll take that to YKTTW later this afternoon (after making sure there isn't already a YKTTW like that).

EDIT: Voilà.

That sounds much better. I do think there was a gap that needed to be filled and Oobleck fell into that gap.

This has got to be the most effort I've ever put into something that was pulled to discussion. XD

Yeah, Zero Context Example doesn't really work with some tropes.

Well, for one thing, you can say why the weapon is named in a certain way. Tropes aren't just things that happen in stories, they happen for reasons. Also, "scythe" is not what Sinister Scythe is about.

It is. Gainaxing just means jiggling boobs; them jiggling independently isn't part of the definition, just a possibility.

Mind you, I don't really see the point of an entry on it (honestly "jiggling boobs" doesn't seem like a trope to me unless taken to extremes), but you're definitely right about the trope as-is.

"The act of drawing a female character with unusually large and buoyant breasts and without a bra, then animating every individual jiggle, sway, bounce and bobble they undergo. Also known as Gainax Bounce or the Gainax Bounce Effect. "

Seems like an example to me. Now, I think the example could stand to be re-written to not focus on one specific example (just something like, "As the resident Ms. Fanservice, her breasts jiggle pretty much any time she does anything mildly strenuous"), but that's just personal preference. The example is fine as is.

Because someone says that "Gainaxing is when the boobs are jiggling separately in different directions". Now that's a weird limitation.

Okay, adding it.

I'd say we leave it until given proof otherwise. I agree it could just be Ruby being Ruby, but it might not. As of right now, we have nothing proving otherwise so we might as well keep it.

I changed it to Animal Stereotypes since Trademark Favorite Food is pretty about being trapped into eating a set kind of food.

Pyrrha's clearly Greek... an idealized hero... I dunno, Achilles? Heracles?

Presuming Ren's an Asian story, I can't think of any female heroines offhand. ... Mulan? That doesn't make any sense.

Nora's obviously Norse. All I can think of is Thor, as she's a Boisterous Bruiser with a hammer.

EDIT: According to the page, Ren is apparently Mulan. Huh.

Double EDIT: According to Wiki, Pyrrha was possibly a name used by Achilles when he was in hiding at one point. So yeah, she's probably Achilles.

It's like those moments on cartoons when characters are drawn to the smell of food and hover toward it, only it can sometimes be more of a Stalker Glide when dealing with people.

I was wondering that too. I think it's Just Woke Up That Way... scratch that, no. Maybe Unkempt Beauty.

I threw in Absent-Minded Professor...

Good one.

He's not an Absent-Minded Professor. He was very sharp, very focused, very aware. He had no trouble remembering peoples names, his subject of choice makes him look very good at keeping track of details, and he made it clear he had noticed Cardin and Jaune's behaviour all along and had been monitoring their progress in his class for weeks. He wasn't at all absent-minded. What he is, is a dishevelled, hyperactive caffeine-nut. I'm not sure what trope that would be, but it's not Absent-Minded Professor.

I think this page is getting crowded fast. When you open all the folders, there's an awful lot of information on the page. It's definitely going to need splitting at some point. Sooner rather than later, I think.

A second page for the RWBY enemies list?

^ I'll second that

Possibly three pages: one for Teams RWBY and JNPR, one for Beacon Academy and Others, and one for Enemies. If teachers and random pupils keep getting mentioned and Team CRDL keeps getting focus as the rival team, then the Beacon Academy section is going to grow nearly as fast as the two main team sections.

Well, his age is ambiguous (and we all know that eye and hair color conventions are out the window, if not as bad as some anime), but he's definitely not young. We should probably keep it for now.

Even if he's not OLD, considering that the main cast is almost entirely teenagers, he's still an old guy to them. Even if he's 40, he's an "old guy" to a group of teens.

Remember, Cool Old Guy is about relative age. If a guy is 101 and the rest of the cast is 100, he's not a Cool Old Guy. But if a guy is 30 and the rest of the cast is 12, he'd count.

@Larkman. That's fair enough. I was having trouble understanding the trope's description, but a relative age factor makes sense to me.

I'd suggest improving the example though. At the moment it's just the Good Cop/Bad Cop example reused which wouldn't be the Cool Old Guy trope if he was just playing a Good Cop role for a set outcome. Given his personal congratulations to Jaune and his mentoring of Ruby in Episode 10, I think there are plenty of examples that could be used that fit better.

She still reloads. Obviously, bottomless means never ending. She reloads, ergo, her ammunition is not infinite.

I'm sorry it's taken me several months to get back to you on this, it's just your comment was so illogical and misleading that I couldn't immediately respond without commenting on your failure to work logic. So I will start with my rebuttal: No.

There a good strong reason why you are wrong. That being Narrative rules. Ruby does not, at any time during the video reload her weapon. She exchanges one round type for another, it is very clear in how the entire video is structured. There is no sound of her weapon dry-firing. There is no shot of her considering her weapon at any point. There is no shot indicating that her ammunition is not infinite. The point where she switches ammunition, is shown with her looking out at her enemies, dropping the magazine she'd been using up to that point, and loading a new magazine with a special symbol and then continuing without any of the previous ways of showing that her ammunition is limited.

The narrative of the trailer does not show that her ammunition is limited, ergo her ammunition is infinite.

Go back to Ruby's trailer and skip to 2:40, and tell me how you cannot call that reloading. She discards a clip, loads a new one, and pulls back the bolt, which primes it for firing.

Before you call people idiots, be sure to check if you're not making a fool of yourself and becoming the idiot.

Because it's not reloading. Yes, all of those things happen in reloading, but given that it's a magazine fed weapon, such is also required for any exotic or non-standard loads used in the gun (like switching to armor piercing rounds).

Like I said, there is no treatment of the weapon or the scene that would make that a reload. She switches from one infinite load to a different infinite load that has different effects, has different markings and is only considered at a certain enemy density. There is no instance of her weapon failing to fire, there is no considering the magazine she's putting in to check ammo count, just her deciding that she wasn't killing them fast enough, and swapping loads. There is no reason to believe that if she had not changed loads, she would have run out of ammo.

So before you decide to call people out on narrative structure, be sure to check you actually know what you're talking about, because you argument is literally based on me not having seen the trailer, despite my entire argument requiring me to have seen the trailer.

I would argue that since each shot has to be loaded from the magazine by pulling the bolt, it's entirely likely that Ruby could be counting her shots, or at least has some approximation of how many shots she has left. She only considers reloading after she gets knocked some distance away and looks at the crowd of Beowolfs gathering. Changing out a clip at this point would be like getting into a gunfight and having three shots left in the clip, and knowing that you'll need a full magazine and may not have another chance to reload.

Is it an improbably sized magazine? Certainly. Bottomless...I really don't see how you can say it for sure.

Whoops, misfire.

Sorry, post in wrong place.

I'd argue that Nora has Bottomless Magazines, but when you look at both Ruby and Yang, why would you reload? I mean even if you were trying to go for a stronger round, the first kind they were both using seemed to fit the situation perfectly fine and therefore why reload if you weren't out of ammo?

As it was originally written, the entry made it sound like Ruby wasn't a Leeroy at all. Yeah, she's not a traditional Leeroy, but she definitely does tend to do things without really thinking or planning (see also: thugs in the Dust store, jumping off the Nevermore). Basically a downplayed version of the trope, but she definitely is still pretty Leeroy-ish.

Ah, I agree that she's pretty Leeroy-ish, then. Thanks for clarifying.

Though can I suggest a minor rewording, since showing off ≠ proving herself?

Please, feel free to make any changes you'd like. I think we're pretty much on the same page.

Giving them character entries reminds me of what was done over in Girls und Panzer. The current setup seems to make sense to me.

My question is, do we keep the second team down in the general 'Beacon' area, or given them their own sub-folder?

While I will continue to think of them as characters in their own rights I can't deny that the current setup makes the most sense. Cutting their tropes away from their wielders wouldn't make sense and duplicating them isn't much better, keeping the weapon's tropes separate from the wielder's yet still with them works best.

I think giving the B team their own sub-folder makes sense but leave it until they are actually formed and have some sort of semi official team name. The only one we've seen fighting so far has been Lie Ren and he did better once he dropped his weapons.

Given what Ruby said about the weapons being an extension of the people that wield them, and given what Pyrrha said about Aura, I think giving the weapons character slots is a bit premature. If what Ruby says is true, then the weapons are really insights into the characters themselves rather than characters in their own right (which would make Ruby far better at seeing into the heart of people than she realises because she's so attuned to weapons).

why not?

I started making the weapons section because it seemed appropriate that the extreme imagination that went into their very unique designs qualified them as being characters in their own rights. I used Ruby's quote - "Its like meeting new people, but better..." - at the start as it summarised this thought quite nicely. I only got as far as gathering most of the tropes together and adding some of the context before I needed to get some sleep. I planned to get back to adding context after work the next day, in the meantime the bare bones would be there for others to flesh out if they wished. Of course the Troping locusts descended immediately so when I got back there was little left to do.

Now that the weapons have been added as separate entries after each character it seems a pretty good compromise, summarised by an earlier part of Ruby's speech - " They're an extension of our selves" -. I'll be more cautious about any big changes on the RWBY pages in the future, but it was fun seeing my initial idea evolving in just a few days (despite a little bickering).