Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Musical!Scar is a , but I hope this is the last time we have to discuss Scar in general.

edited 22nd Feb '14 9:30:33 PM by sanfranman91

Together, we are one.

Hey, Sanfran, any further thoughts on Sentai or Kamen?

Alright then. How's this for a writeup?

• Complete Monster: Like his movie counterpart, the Scar from the musical version of the film qualifies for this trope, maybe even more so than the original Scar. This version of Scar commits the same crimes that his movie counterpart did, and even went beyond that. During the musical, Scar became more and more paranoid as time went by,and felt that he was being haunted by his brother's ghost. Unwilling to admit that he's terrible at governing his land, he instead condemns everyone to death so that he won't have to accept the fact that maybe he wasn't as good at being a king that he thought he would be. He also attempted to rape Nala, which becomes even more disturbing in hindsight considering that he tried to have her killed along with his nephew when they were children. The musical version of Scar is nothing more than an egomaniacal, treacherous, and murderous feline who deserved his fate at the end.

It should also be noted that I never watched the play before, and most of what I put on here may not be entirely accurate. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm back! Sorry that I've been out for a while, but here's a post to catch myself up on the forum's events.

As I said before, Musical!Scar is a and I'll abstain on the vote for Film!Scar. I hope this is the last time we have to discuss him in general.

Caesar is still a (no matter what face he makes; look at how ZZ Gundam treated Yazan Gable for example) and John Ryder is a .

Now that I think of Makise thoroughly, Fourze was not only written by the man who wrote Gainax and Trigger series, it is also one of the Lightest series in the Kamen Rider franchise. Fourze C Ms thus need to have pretty goddamn good reasons to be even considered and I'm not sure if Makise has caused enough damage in comparison to Rem Kannagi and Aries Zodiarts. Thus, I think he and Kijima are cuts.

Speaking of Fourze, I'm going to change my vote on Xaviax to a . After much more thought and patience, I think while he has cleared the heinous standard, he's still at the end of the day caring for his people and trying his best to fix up their world. As a result, it's 5 or 6 nays and now no yeas. Yeah, I think I'm going to give the kill order on Xaviax's entry in the Edit Requests thread.

While I will need help with the Sentai and Power Rangers entries (since I haven't watched them as much as KR), I should come up with revised Kamen Rider entries sometime this week.

And yeah, some of the Sentai entries are a mess. It's bad enough refreshing myself on KR; I don't think I have the time to rewatch all of the Sentai as well. Would be worth contacting the original entry writers to bring them to this thread to explain why the characters qualify. Also, some of the entries are too casual (in other words, excessive with !'s, bolds, ALLCAPS, italics, etc.). Remove the casual and joking language if you can.

edited 22nd Feb '14 9:35:10 PM by sanfranman91

Together, we are one.

I actually think most of the villains on Sentai may be fine. It's just good entries as the issue.

I'll trust you on the Kamen Rider ones, of course.

As I've watched a bit of both Sentai and Power Rangers and did a lot of reading on the former, I'll help you. There are a few I think need to be cut.

edited 22nd Feb '14 9:36:53 PM by finalsurvivor1

By all means, let us know.

Here are a few rewrites for parts of the NA list.

For the "Definitely a CM" section

• Infinite Crisis
  • Superboy-Prime: As it stands now, he has been definitively shown as a CM
• Harry Potter
  • Bellatrix: Her relationship with Voldemort isn't love, thus not disqualified.
• Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
  • Volgin: His "love" for Raikov is nothing but possessive desire, and does not disqualify him.

For the "Disney" section:

• A Bug's Life
  • Hopper: Disqualified for redeeming feature (making a promise to his mother on her death bed and actually keeping it).
• The Incredibles
  • Syndrome: Disqualified for having a sympathetic backstory and failing the heinous standard.
• Wreck-It Ralph
  • Turbo: Insufficiently heinous

For the "Video Games" section:

• Assassin's Creed
  • Rodrigo "The Spaniard" Borgia: Disqualified for Offscreen Villainy and being no more heinous than many other characters in the story.
  • Orsi Brothers: Disqualified for not being truly heinous.
  • Warren Vidic: Disqualified for being a Well-Intentioned Extremist.
• Dishonored
  • The Lord Regent: Disqualified for having a redeeming quality (being in love).
• Fallout 3
  • Werner: Cut for failing the heinous standard. The idea that he would kill a baby is purely conjecture lacking in-game evidence.
• Fallout: New Vegas
  • Dermot and Saint James: Cut for Offscreen Villainy and failing the heinous standard in relation to Cook Cook, whom they express disgust over his heinous actions.
  • Salt-Upon-Wounds: Disqualified for Offscreen Villainy before Honest Hearts took place. Onscreen appearances fail heinous standard.
• Mass Effect 2
  • Morinth: Disqualified for Offscreen Villainy and for having redeeming qualities (genuinely caring for her two sisters).
  • Dr. Gavin Archer: Disqualified for being a Well-Intentioned Extremist, having a Heel Realization moment, and becoming The Atoner.
• Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker
  • Hot Coldman: Disqualified for being a Well-Intentioned Extremist and for failing the truly heinous standard compared to Volgin.
• Pokémon Black and White
  • Ghetsis: Fails heinous standard.

For the "Western Animation" section:

• The Legend of Korra:
  • Yakone: Fails heinous standard compared to Ozai and Unalaq.
• The Fairly OddParents!
  • As this is a comedy with loads of Negative Continuity, no matter how meanie-pants the characters are, they cannot qualify as CMs.
• My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic:
  • Any character because it's a lighthearted kids' show and fails the heinous standard.
• South Park:
  • Given that all evil actions in this cartoon are Played for Laughs, and that it (mostly) has Negative Continuity, no character can qualify.
• SpongeBob SquarePants
  • Any character, period, whether from the cartoon or the film. They all fail the heinous standard and it's a comedy. Yes, even Plankton, Dennis, and Mr. Krabs.

edited 24th Feb '14 8:22:53 PM by TVRulezAgain

I see, it makes the NA list more clear now. Though isn't it kind of immature to have the word "meanie-pants" in the FOP example? We're all grown here.

edited 22nd Feb '14 9:58:32 PM by AustinDR

I concur. I would revise the entries for Fairly Oddparents and MLP to read as the following:

• The Fairly OddParents!
  • As this is a lighthearted comedy with loads of Negative Continuity, all of the characters fail to pass the heinousness standard.

• My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic
  • Because the series is a lighthearted comedy, every character fails the heinous standard.

edited 22nd Feb '14 10:01:29 PM by sanfranman91

Together, we are one.

I think the entry was using "meanie-pants" sarcastically.

Darn! I missed the joke again !

edited 22nd Feb '14 10:04:51 PM by AustinDR

Basically, the entry is saying "Being a meaniehead is not this trope."

I know that, I was just saying that I failed to pick up on it being said sarcastically.

Very well. For Sentai:

Jarmin: I hate doing this. I really do. But, sadly, Jarmin's one of those 99% monsters. Starting at around episode 20, most of the original villains are killed off. It's around this point that Jarmin actually starts genuinely worrying for one of her partners and mourns his death. She's a monster, yes, but not a complete monster.

Cyclops and N Ma: This was an easy decision for me. Cyclops only appears in four episodes and is only important in two of them. His torment, especially to Tsubasa, is abhorrent, but compared to his bosses Dagon and N Ma, he's nowhere near as heinous. As for N Ma, his entry says that he's made of nightmares and hunger, which seems to be Made of Evil. Additionally, after his revival, he came off as a Generic Doomsday Villain who hated Magitopia and needed to eat all magic to try and fill his hunger.

Other than those three, the list is fine. A despoilering and may be necessary, though. Any thoughts?

EDIT: OK, something just occurred to me with Power Rangers. While each season of Sentai is in a different universe with different standards, Power Rangers is, except for the first movie and RPM, in one continuity. However, after Lost Galaxy, all seasons except for Dino Thunder and Megaforce have few nods to other seasons outside of a crossover or two. With this information, should all Power Ranger villains save for Venjix have to be compared to each other in terms of heinousness?

edited 22nd Feb '14 10:36:02 PM by finalsurvivor1

Well aren't I a dolt?! . Okay, in that case meaniepants is fine.

And yeah, if what you're saying is true, then you should terminate those three entries with extreme prejudice. Cleaning the Sentai list was much easier than i thought...

Together, we are one.

Also: to the changes to the NA list.

Oh, I'd support cutting those, and rewriting any others that need it for Sentai then. Let's have a look-see at Power rangers next

Having just seen White House Down I think I'll do an effort post for its main villain soon. Hang tight for that soon.

Okay, Super Giant Spoilers ahead. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

The film has a rather...large cast of villains. There's Emil Stenz, the leader of a white supremacist militia and his Co-Dragons, though Stenz is the dragon to the mastermind Walker, who leads the President's security detail.

Now, Stenz and Walker are nasty as hell, and both cause plenty of crimes, with Walker's goal to launch a nuclear strike on the Middle East. However, both have sympathetic backstories- Stenz was burned in Afghanistan and captured by the Taliban. Walker lost his beloved son in a botched mission in Iran. Walker clearly loves his wife and son, and his moral agency is in serious question by a brain tumor. Stenz also gets noticeably upset when one of his men is killed because the man saved his life in combat in the past, so both are out.

That leads us to...

Who Is He?

Speaker of the House Eli Raphelson, the true mastermind. Raphelson is simply a guy who champions the military industrial complex and wants the wars in the middle East to continue to keep money flowing in (no, this is not a subtle film, thank you for asking). Furthermore, he wants to become President.

What's He Do?

He gives launch codes to Walker, and allows him to invade the White house. Lots of people are killed and plenty innocent civilians are taken hostage. Raphelson's plan is a massive nuking of the Middle East, and if that wasn't enough, he has Air Force 1 shot down to kill the Vice President while trusting Walker and Stenz's crew to eliminate President Sawyer in the White House. He also orders a strike on the White House to kill everyone and hide all the evidence?

Heinous Standard and Freudian Excuse/Redeeming Qualities?

Raphelson clears it, given everything in the film is his ultimate master plan. He doesn't do anything hands-on, but he knows that ordering an air strike will kill multiple civilians. He organizes a lot of deaths and commits high treason solely for money and power.

He's also the only villain present without any excuse or redeeming features. Stenz and Walker both fail the mitigating factor test. Raphelson does have a bit at the end when he rants President Sawyer is 'selling them out to the Arabs', but this is nothing more than a hollow breakdown when he's being arrested and trying to give himself some last second legitimacy, given it's made explicitly clear that he just wants money and power and politics are secondary.

So, in conclusion...I say Raphelson counts.

edited 23rd Feb '14 12:34:17 AM by Lightysnake

22247: Referring to FIM as a comedy just seems wrong. Calling it lighthearted works fine on its own as a reason.

Ah, so Fourze's been worked on. What about this from the original?: The Great Leader and the Shocker commanders, especially Doctor Shinigami from the first series.

Oh, and people PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE: When working on the Kamen Rider, Power Rangers, and Super Sentai entries, PLEASE make sure the YMM Vs match; I already went through each one already, and have no desire to do it again

edited 23rd Feb '14 4:51:23 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

Here's yet another Goosebumps example:

• The Lord High Executioner from "Night in Terror Tower" is the brutal and terrifyingly devoted right hand man to Ed and Susannah's Evil Uncle. After said uncle usurps the kingdom, the Executioner murders the King and Queen, and is prepared to do the same to their children before they disappear into the future. Refusing to give up, he steals Morgred the Sorceror's secrets and chases them into modern day England, where he tries to capture the terrified children and bring them back to be executed. A ruthless, unrepentant psychopath, this man is so feared throughout the kingdom that even Morgred, a powerful sorcerer, is terrified of defying him. And unlike other antagonists, the Lord High Executioner has no supernatural powers or origins. He's simply a sadistic killer who revels in his reputation and never lets his target escape.

"I am the lord of Purity, who tolerates no deviation." My first online story

Seems like a possible keep.

Since the Disney sandbox is ready to be launched, I though I might add my Frollo rewrite with a few edits

• In The Hunchback Of Notre Dame, Judge Claude Frollo is likely one of the most evil characters the company has ever invented. He is introduced pursuing a young woman on horseback, and pushed her the steps of the church with his foot causing her to tumble to her death. He tries to throw her son down into the well, until the archdeacon calls him out, which causes Frollo to take the boy in keeping him under strict rule. While he initially seems to have to have fallen in love with a young gypsy girl Esmeralda, but when she rejects him he decides she must burn in hell. Taking his anger out on all gypsies, Frollo burns down a windmill, where a family lived, for harboring them. After that Frollo tries to have a massive section of the city burned so he can kill as many gypsies as possible.

edited 23rd Feb '14 10:59:52 AM by randomtroper89

Good rewrite. However, I would say that Frollo pushed Quasimodo's mother on the steps of the church with his foot rather than causing her to stumble on the steps. Otherwise good rewrite. Please feel free to add it to the sandbox .

The Lord High Executioner, if I recall right, is brainwashed magically by the real villain.

Actually, this is kinda a weird case. Terror Tower got a sequel in the form of a Choose Your Own Adventure book where the real ending is the evil king's control is broken, which releases the Executioner and everyone else from his mind control.