During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
After receiving some clarification, I must sadly alter my vote to ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Cervantes. I'm sorry.
What did it for me is that he just returns to what he was doing prior to finding Soul Edge when he comes back in V.
Maybe if he did rape that bar maid I'd still support his inclusion just for the sheer cruelty of forced pregnancy to birth a child to consume or possess later, but at the moment?
He's just a pirate being a dick. His treatment of Ivy's certainly his stand out crime of course.
EDIT: True, ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
but it's hard to look past all the people that would have died or been endangered by blowing up the dam. Hospitals and the like would have had power cuts, killing hundreds at least and thousands more likely. I know we don't look at Fridge Horror here, but I think that counts for something. Not to mention all the cops he killed, which is very hard to explain under Gameplay and Story Segregation.
After everything... I think I'll Cook as well. The writing is so terrible and the heinous standard is so screwy for me not to want him on the page. And his Freudian Excuse is a small niggling issue as well as him being a Death Seeker making me question his sanity. Yes, I supported Not Important who very much hoped to die a violent death, but I think it's a slightly different situation.
edited 20th Mar '17 6:37:40 PM by PolarPhantom
If there's Gameplay and Story Segregation, ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Cook.
What was the tally on Lord Ozunu?
edited 20th Mar '17 8:04:31 PM by DemonDuckofDoom
Thank you all for the input on Cervantes, even though it ended on the rejected side. Yet I offer another suggestion: Saiki, from The King of Fighters XIII.
What is the work?
The King of Fighters XIII is the 13th main game in SNK's flagship series of fighting games, The King of Fighters.
Like most games before, this has teams of 3 fighters competing in the titular tournament, who is always a front for some world domination scheme or other nefarious plan. This game has the cult leader finally stepping in to ensure his ultimate goal. It's the conclusion of the "Tales of Ash" saga, beginning in 2003 and starring Ash Crimson as the new protagonist. We've had so far an arms dealer who wanted to make statues out of fighters, cultists who wanted to revive their god to rule the world, shady cartels trying to rule the world and now another cult similar to the first one described.
Sort of the thing you can expect from a JRPG plot, who are usually T-Rated, like KOF. Yet, the series already have a CM in this wiki: Rugal Bernstein, the very first villain- and the arms dealer described above. So, it's not uncommon for some bad guys to cross a line.
Who is he?
Saiki is the leader of the mysterious organization known as "Those From the Past". Starting in The King of Fighters 2003, his group has tried to revive Orochi, much like his Heavenly Kings from the Orochi saga ('96 and '97). Yet, he seeks to have the deity under his control.
What has he done?
Going solely from XIII, we see him as an extremely nasty leader, berating his subordinates at every turn- specially Mukai, the main villain from 2003. He nonchalanty tells him to die and that that might make him useful. He also has Ash working for him, and threatens to punish him should he fail to do his part in Saiki's plan.
When it comes the time to strike, Mukai offers to fight in Saiki's stead, to which he responds by killing him, piercing him with his hands and sucking his skin, leaving only a skeleton behind. He then faces the winning team, hoping to sacrifice them for the awakening of Orochi, not before morphing into some kinda threatening demonic humanoid.
Saiki loses, and a gateway he intended to open is closing. In this moment of distraction and confusion, Ash strikes him and steals his soul. Saiki ends up deciding Ash's a suitable host and gets to possess him in the end, becoming the actual final boss of the game.
When he is defeated again, he commands Ash to cross the gate and try to restart time again. Ash refuses, and both are erased from existence.
Mitigating/reedeming factors? Freudian Excuses?
None. All of his screentime shows him to be a massive jerk who doesn't care one bit about his followers, and he clearly stated in the bad ending that he considered having to sacrifice them for the plan to work.
His pre-match dialogue with the other fighters is filled with contempt, deriding them as puny humans that will be crushed by him. Whenever he can mock a character for something, he does. He is utterly arrogant and self-absorbed, confident that he is now a god who can control time.
Heinous standard?
His goals achieving godhood are nothing new to the series (there was Igniz in 2001). However, his extreme Bad Boss behaviour shows him to be an even more unpleasant jerk than many other villains in the series. Personality-wise, there isn't a single redeeming feature about him.
As for the reactions he causes in others, Kim Kaphwan states that he never thought something as evil as him could exist. Goro Daimon says the he won't lose to someone "as evil as him". So his vileness is even recognized by other fighters: Kim seems to consider him more evil than Rugal! Even the normally unflappable Ash Crimson is angry at him during his dialogue.
All of his appearances are accompanied with ominous music, perhaps to enhance the threatening effect.
The Unknown Unknown
Hey, guys, you probably noticed I suddenly disappeared. That's because of a sudden increase in workload and stress. That doesn't factor in computer problems. So I took an unannounced break. While you may catch me on other threads, that's because they requiew significantly less brainpower (and words). And even then it's only a like one or two threads.
I'm still on it, but I wanted to let everyone know what's up. Sorry for missing all the discussions and candidates. I'll see you guys in a bit.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
So here's the writeup for Kalinin's SCP-001 Proposal. Given how much the work likes to use Mind Screw imagery and Purple Prose, it is entirely possible that a new interpretation will take over this one in the future and maybe disqualify SCP-001 with regards to its morality. Anyways, here it is for now.
- Kalinin's Proposal (Past and Future): SCP-001 is a member of an alien race with a humanlike morality but extremely twisted values, building their own perfection out of their gratitude towards others' suffering. The race wants humanity to return to their true origin, one of their nine moons, the Planet of Hands, as handless, indoctrinated slaves, born to die for them, and SCP-001's duty is to make humanity suffer on Earth so they would willingly return. SCP-001, capable of influencing anomalous phenomena on a cosmic scale, teleports many anomalies outside containment and upgrades their effectsExamples include: , obliterating all Foundation control efforts, causing horrendous damage to masses and disturbing global order. Before its finale, SCP-001 crucified SCP-990 and used his powers to send an ultimatum to O5-2, appearing as her dead child to emotionally torture her, driving her to suicide. In its finale, SCP-001 mutilates thousands in Egypt and floods China by removing the Three Gorges Dam, and successfully convinced thousands to flee to the Planet of Hands, followed by more. An actively evil intelligence holding a twisted logic, Kalinin's SCP-001 stands out as one of the SCP Wiki's most horrifically heinous characters.
edited 20th Mar '17 11:38:25 PM by Wuz
Alrighty then, just finished that blaxploitation film. Nobody in The Black Six counts due to lack of heinousness.
Don't worry erazor. Nothing wrong with that.
As for Saiki, he was listed at one point, but cut because, if I recall correctly, his entry was a Zero Content Example.
Anyway, I want to vote for him, but I have a question: What other crimes were committed during the Ash Saga that Saiki, as Greater-Scope Villain of this story arc, responsible for?
1. It's my birthday, yay, happy birthday to me.
2. I find Hamdo's entry a little barren for reading so I decided to do one of my own:
- King Hamdo uses his floating fortress, Hellywood, to plunder resources from a desperate land as well as kidnap children to use as soldiers in his army. Introduced strangling his own cat to death, Hamdo reacts with psychotic glee upon learning his men have found a girl who possesses an amulet capable of creating water, a precious resource in his time. When he discovers she's lost said amulet and refuses to help him find it, Hamdo flies into a rage and is implied to rape her as punishment. So cowardly that any threat of his enemies coming close to him sends him into a panic, Hamdo orders his second-in-command to fire upon them, even while his own Child Soldiers are engaged with them on the frontline, caring nothing for them in the face of getting to save his own skin. Despite preaching a campaign to unify the desolate world, Hamdo's actions make it clear he's a self-serving, unintelligent bully whose only interest is in securing and consolidating his own power.
Draft for Dr. Levine:
Dr. Levine from the episode "Organ Grinder" is the head doctor at a free clinic known as Folter Clinic. She is also the head of a ring of Geiers who lure or kidnap young teenagers and extract their organs for Wesen to use. Geiers are known in general for their disturbing practices, but typically only extracted organs from the dead or dying, befitting vultures' status as scavengers (Geiers resemble vultures). On the other hand, Levine takes their brutality a step further by targeting teenagers, forcing a boy named Hanson to watch as Levine prepares to cut his sister open for her organs and barely caring as her subordinates are gunned down by Portland Police when they rescue the teens, all in the name of profit and establishing herself as one of the more disturbing killers among a race of them.
edited 21st Mar '17 9:18:38 AM by k410ren
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
. 
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I'm gonna have to think a bit about Saiki as well. Seems like he could pass though.
Also happy B-day 43110. I'm assuming you're not 43,111 years old now. 
Messenger from another dimension.
Happy Birthday, and wow what a coincidence; I am just finishing watching Now And Then Here And There.
edited 21st Mar '17 10:08:21 AM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Thanks guys!
Sadly, I've only turned 24 though gimme another 40K years and I'll be getting close!
Happy Birthday, conglaturation!,
Planeswalker
Cook and Saiki.
I'm gonna ask my question again: What other crimes occur during the Ash Saga that Saiki was responsible for, directly or indirectly?
Like reflections in the glass!
Okay Today' the 21st, and that means I'm free to discuss NieR Automata. But I have one question. Can I make effortpost explaining why a character doesn't qualify for CM? Or is it a case of simply saying "There are no CMs in [work]" and leave it at that?
Cook and Saiki. And a very happy birthday to you man.
I'm late, but see ya 'round, Scraggle. You take care now, you here?
Anyway, here are both my writeups. Since they come from short stories without workpages they ought to go on Junji Ito''s YMMV page, I suppose. So anyway...
- The Back Alley: Shinobu Uchiyama is a fourteen year old sociopath, and the one responsible for a series of murders that happened in the alley behind her mother's boarding house. Ever since she was a little girl, she was violently territorial towards the alley and murdered three little children who decided to play there one day. After her father fenced it off, Shinobu grew fond of using the alley as a killing ground, and as she grew older she lured two classmates that she hated over and killed them, and eventually did the same to her own father before leaving taunting, vulgar graffiti celebrating their murders. The souls of her victims haunt the alley as vengeful ghosts who are permanently trapped due to not being able to climb out and attack Shinobu, who simply relishes in their suffering. When the protagonist Ishida investigates the alley and tries to escape in order to call the police, Shinobu stabs him in the hand and causes him to fall, then smugly gloats about her crimes to a dying Ishida. Despite claiming that she has nothing against him, she giggles with glee once he succumbs to his wounds and casually tries to hide his body without a shred of remorse.
- Tomio: Red Turtleneck: In this cautionary tale about adultery, the nameless fortune teller proves to be among Junji Ito's most terrifying antagonists yet. Introduced as a sinister beauty who has an affair with the unfaithful Tomio, the fortune teller is revealed to be a psychotic witch obsessed with decapitating people and collecting their severed heads. She has twenty-five rotting heads on display in her mansion, and she puts a curse on Tomio after setting her sights on obtaining his head for her collection. What results is Tomio being decapitated through dark magic with only the force of him rooting his head in place keeping him alive, with the witch taunting him with the knowledge that the slightest bit of relaxation will kill him. In a physically and mentally torturous ordeal, a terrified Tomio desperately tries to keep his head connected to his body while he and his girlfriend Sonoka wait for an ambulance to arrive at her apartment. But instead of an ambulance, the fortune teller shows up at Sonoka's door with the intent to collect Tomio's head, but not before having a sadistic bit of fun with him. The fortune teller then proceeds to torture Tomio by probing around under his neck with a tarot card before letting a cockroach burrow its way inside his body, and then maniacally laughs at the resulting agony Tomio is put through. When Sonoka stabs her from behind, the fortune teller's last act is to try to kill her as well before dying from her wounds. Despite the curse on Tomio being lifted after her death, the fortune teller's twisted, sadistic torture is shown to have mentally traumatized the man at the story's end.
Morning Star: The way I see it, effortpost for people that absolutely don't count are pointless, so I'd go with a general "no one counts." That's just how I'd do it, though.
edited 21st Mar '17 11:59:25 AM by FriedWarthog
Like reflections in the glass!
Okay, I'll just say No one counts, but since I claimed it, I might as well give the cliff notes version why
Eve is less likely because he doesn't do anything until Adam is dead, and what he does do is try to avenge his brother.
The Terminals are discounted because they A) also desire to be human, B) wound up changing their plans and creating an ark for the Machines' consciousness after being defeated and C) as the Machine Network itself and having two holographic avatars they might run afoul of the "no groups" rule and of questionable agency.
The original masterminds of Project YoHRa. Discounted because of Offscreen Villainy (they likely don't even exist by the time the game starts) and because their actions were also motivated by a desire to be human.
Its a tale of Grey-and-Grey Morality, and therefore not applicable for this.
edited 21st Mar '17 12:10:56 PM by MorningStar1337
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Please add to the Drafts.
Like reflections in the glass!
I'm confused. I was elaborating why no one in Nie R Automata, counts for this trope.
edited 21st Mar '17 12:15:17 PM by MorningStar1337
Also while Ride To Hell is a bad game, the cutscenes don't depict Jake killing civilians. For example, even though there is no penalty for shooting miners as opposed to knocking them out, the resulting cutscene always shows Jake sparing them and saying their hate to bikers isn't unwarranted. Gameplay and Story Segregation basically.