During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Doesn't even like this username
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Since nothing about those entries makes it seem like they actually intended to kill the audience (or even hurt them, that just seems accidental) I vote ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Like only 10%? 
Speaking of Monster.Fan Works I have no idea were The Locust entry came from. I looked up the author's fanfic.net page and while I found no signs of this work I did notice he mentioned a self published novel.
Maybe it belongs in Monster.Other Media.
edited 30th Jan '15 9:09:29 AM by randomtroper89
I see that FallenTx kept sporadically trying to discuss the following entry in this thread:
- Minerva Liddell is the former Ace Wizard of Special Sorcery Service and later become a temporary Wizard of Deus.Ex.Machina Industries. What sets Minerva apart from others is how she only apparent motivation in life is to kill and "destroy" whatever she can, without cares if they are children. Since her goals are achieved, she would be willing to commit sexual abuse and kill until even people in front of their friends. Minerva feigns concern for SSS members before she get a scar made by Artemisia B. Ashcroft after Minerva made a cowardly act in trying to kill Cecil O'Brien, Ashley Sinclair and Leonora Sears in front of Artemisia after she lose a duel, but after 3 best friends Artemisia rebelled against Deus.Ex.Machina Industries to save Artemisia from the scientist, Edgar F. Caroll, she shows no hesitation or remorse in slays them and make various types of atrocities with them alive, such as breaking their bones, crushing their skulls, and among other types of torture that she uses to make her victims suffer before she kill them. Minerva is willing to kill and torture almost everyone she meets, whether combatants or not.
Now, they've added it to the YMMV page without any consensus for several pages or so. I have deleted it since it's not ACW who added it (I reckon ACW is the one who does writeups), and it reeks of horrendous grammar.
I am not familiar with this spin-off of Date A Live, so I can't comment any further on the matter.
edited 30th Jan '15 9:11:23 AM by AnoBakaDesu
"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
She's been approved, but the tweaking's not yet been done.
Lost in Space
I slapped a wiki suspension on FallenTx for abysmal grammar as well as the improper CM addition.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well, I can forgive the addition (I still need to tweak, but she's been approved). But gah, the grammar. "Is how she only apparent motivation in life"???
She may not be a native speaker. Mmm, I should've told her not to add anything until we had time to go over these.
- Strike Commando: Jakota, head of the Russian forces in Vietnam, intends to kill Mike Ransom slowly and horribly. As the leader of the Russians, Jakota makes it his job and pleasure to carry out torture and death on almost everyone he encounters. In his home base, Jakota subjects all captives to savage torture with Ransom himself suffering painful electrocution. When Jakota learns a native village has been sheltering Ransom, he leads his troops there and initiates a full on massacre of men, women and children, slaughtering everyone save a little boy who befriended Ransom with the boy surviving long enough to die in Ransom's arms wishing he could have seen Disneyland just once. Jakota spends the rest of the film trying to kill Ransom and will stop at nothing to kill the 'Americanski.'
- Nightcrawler: Louis "Lou" Bloom is what is known as a 'Nightcrawler,' a reporter who prowls the nights for the most gruesome footage he can gather. Louis is also a total sociopath who opens the film by attacking and perhaps murdering a security guard for his watch. Once he discovers the money in reporting, Louis devotes himself wholeheartedly to the endeavor. He blackmails his boss into sleeping with him once his position is secure, knowing she can't refuse and keep her position without his footage. Lou sabotages the brakes of a van belonging to a rival, uncaring of casualties, so he can film said rival dying on a stretcher. Lou later conceals the true motive for a seeming home invasion so he can create a panic-laden story of urban crime creeping into the suburbs. When he locates the gang responsible, Lou engineers a confrontation with the police in a crowded diner so he can film the resulting carnage as gang members, police and innocent civilians die. Finally, Lou follows a car chase and when one of the gang members crashes, Lou lies to his assistant Rick that the gangster is dead so Rick is shot dead by the gangster once he goes over to film the body. A media sensation with his new company of Video Production News, Lou covers his lack of humanity with a seemingly friendly mask, all the while promising his new employees he'd never ask any of them to do something he wouldn't do himself.
edited 30th Jan '15 10:31:02 AM by Lightysnake
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, seems like he's from Brazil.
A lot of that is going to have to be tagged before it goes up on the YMMV page.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
You mean potholed? I'll do that tomorrow.
I meant spoiler tagged. That's basically a complete summary of the film; we can't just throw those up on YMMV pages unspoilered.
EDIT: Specifically talking about Nightcrawler.
edited 30th Jan '15 11:20:02 AM by KyleJacobs
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah. Hmm, good point. We don't wanna over-tag (especially on the YMMV page), but...Though for Jakoda we're probably safe.
This is hardly a new complaint from me.
Lizzid people!
Yeah, Fallen TX was from Brazil. I actually just found that out when I was talking with him on another website.
edited 30th Jan '15 11:37:26 AM by AustinDR
Lost in Space
As an aside, national origin is irrelevant; some of our least coherent (and most violently convinced that there were no problems with their grammar whatsoever) tropers have been U.S. born and raised. Usually a non-native speaker recognizes that they lack fluency.
edited 30th Jan '15 12:15:25 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Seeing as there have been four ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Nightmare Eclipse, and no, here is a rough draft write up:
- The Dark World arc has Nightmare Eclipse, the true villain of the arc, and the one responsible for every previous villain and every evil act in the story. Nightmare Eclipse is a version of Twilight from an alternate future ruled by Discord, who had somehow managed to defeat Discord and trap him in his own world. Eclipse decided to punish Discord by placing him and everyone else in a "Groundhog Day" Loop. Every thousand years, Discord would be defeated and killed, after which time would reset itself and after another thousand years, he would be killed again. With each cycle, Discord's evil actions would get progressively worse. Likewise, Discord's death would get more and more painful. Trapping everyone else with Discord, Eclipse had them tortured along with Discord. This continued on for several hundred million years, during which, Eclipse mind raped different versions of her friends into acting as her Co-Dragons. When Twilight and her friends defeat Discord, Eclipse tries to reset time again, and attempts to kill Twilight and her friends when they try to stop her. During the fight, Eclipse sets Apple Pie on fire. Determined to punish Discord even if it meant torturing countless innocents along with him, Eclipse proved herself to be no better than Discord himself.
Lizzid people!
That is true.
I nominate Injun Joe from the Disney adaptation of Tom and Huck. I don't remember the movie much, but I remember this guy being pure Nightmare Fuel, especially for a childrens film. He was shown on screen stabbing people to death and tried many times to kill the child protagonist. I'm pretty sure he met all the 3 qualifications, but like I said, it's been years since I've seen the movie (I was only 10 at the time).
This is a very elaborate hypothetical, but say someone with the CM critera be disqualified if they become possessed by a good character ? Probably not but I'm asking because in last nights episode of The Vampire Diaries Kai, who was on my "To Propose" list for a while, ended up merging his soul with his good guy brother Luke. Not sure if it means Kai will inheirit his brothers good traits, but if that's the case, would it be disqualifying ?
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Party Crasher
A question for those familiar with TheSopranos. Phil Leotardo has been disqualified, yes? Because we either forgot to remove him from the series' YMMV page or someone re-added him.
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Sounds like a reversal of the usual moral agency issue, like that AXIS thing y'all were going on about. If he qualified before the merge, it seems like any disqualifying afterward shouldn't count, perhaps even being thought of as a separate character. IMHO
edited 30th Jan '15 1:27:00 PM by YamiVizziniX
There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
Absolutely. Phil cared for his brother (the one Blundetto shot, which the entry conveniently forgets) and his wife and children. A hidden note would be in order on that page.
@ Beast: Being possessed or brainwashed into a good person is not a disqualifier no; that's why Smallville's Brainiac is on the list. Merged souls would be a trickier issue, but the new personality would probably be treated as its own character entirely.
edited 30th Jan '15 1:37:11 PM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Party Crasher
Ah, thanks. I recalled correctly then. I went and removed the entry, gonna put on note there too.
Honestly, I don't think anyone from this series can qualify. Except, maybe, Richie Aprile, who is already listed.
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Perhaps I can make it less tricky if I explain it - a major part of this season of the Vampire Diaries is the Merge ritual in which two sibling witches perform a ritual too merge their magic, winner becomes stronger, loser dies off. Accoreding to Luke and Kai's father the loser doesn't so much as die off as their soul merges with the winners soul as a new being. We are yet to see what he means by that or if Kai will inhierit Luke's positive trait, so I'll have to wait till next week to find out.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."