Writer Support Group

I am thinking of doing a Journey to the Center of the Mind epic involving an Author Avatar, but I was thinking that it would be too ambitious, even for myself, thoughts on this?

edited 22nd Jul '16 6:46:55 AM by sabrina_diamond

Well... I don't know what thoughts you're expecting, bud. We haven't met, I don't know how well or productively you write, I don't know if you even have time for this IRL, and I don't if you've mapped out a trilogy or just typed up the idea. So really, I have absolutely no opinion - encouraging or discouraging, validating or otherwise - to offer you.

But I can say this:

If you wanted to write this story, and really write it, your question would be, "Hey, I'm stuck on part X of my plot. My characters are doing Y and I'm trying to get them to do Z. Any thoughts?" Because you've instead asked if we think it's a good idea for you to even try writing it at all, I don't get the sense you're committed enough to the idea to see it through. Maybe as a one-shot, or as an elaborate daydream, but nothing that would have to get into a second or third chapter or deal with more than one plot.

And that's okay! Maybe what this was is actually the start of the real idea you WILL be so swept with that you'll just get started, no questions asked, and only come to us when you need helping getting past a particular snag. Keep your eye open for that, because as soon as that plot hits you, ambition won't be a question and you won't need anyone to reassure you that you're on to something.

Keep going!

I missed your question, Hydra, but I've got a couple for you that might get your juices going on whether to do it. No one knows what your story needs better than you, right?

First, do I - the reader - get any unique information from this new character's POV? Second, is that new information literally impossible for me to go on without or to give to me through the main POV character, whether it's by eavesdropping or asking questions? Third, do you have any intention of going back to Character B's POV later, and are we switching to Character B for more than one chapter, making it worth the risk of jostling me out of the story to reorient myself? Fourth, are you doing this as a shortcut to get your readers to connect with the character or explain the story's world?

You can answer yes or no to any of those and they'd all be the right answer. Just be honest about why you're doing it, and you should be able to work out if it's worth the work of switching. There are a hundred examples of people pulling off this exact idea well and a hundred doing it terribly (hell, even I do it my serial, but I hope it goes off okay - ehhh, outside of the first few posts), so don't you worry, it can be done. But would it actually make your story more interesting and/or fun to read and write?

edited 22nd Jul '16 7:21:48 AM by Tartra

Hit Writer's Block again. I want to introduce a new character around the time the below passage ends (he doesn't appear; he just makes himself known), but I'm afraid it might end up becoming an Ass Pull considering there's no foreshadowing beforehand (the original manuscript did, but I don't feel like I have room for it here).

(Eve cheered up. “Ren! Are you okay?”

“Better than before. What happened?” He looked over at me and scowled. “And what’s he doing here?”

“He helped me take you home.” She said. “I don’t think he knew you have anxiety.”

“Doesn’t matter. I’ve told you before; you can’t just let anybody into your home. Get him out of here.”

My face heated up and I stood up. “Talk about ungrateful! I get it; you're upset. But how was I supposed to know you’d panic?”

“That’s not the point. The damage you caused to the trees, you flipping out over immature insults and the way you taunted me with my mask shows how dangerous you are. I’m sorry, but you can’t stay here.”

“It’s not my fault you don’t know how to fight.”

“Don’t give me that! What’s that got to do with anything?!”

Eve breaks us up. “Stop! Ren, if this guy couldn’t be trusted he would have just killed you right then and there.”

“Thank you!” I shout.

She turned to me. “But he does have a point about you being dangerous.”

“What?”

“We saw your lightning from 600 yards away. How could Ren not be concerned?”

“Whose side are you on?” I realized that Ren and I said that at the same time.

“Everyone’s and no one’s.” She answered. “I don’t want to see anyone fight.”

Ren shook his head. “Never change, Eve. But is he gonna stay here or not?”

“Do you have anywhere to go?” She asked me.

“I don’t know. Does an abandoned school count?”

She looked shocked. “Of course not! Ren, we have to let him stay!”

His eyebrows scrunched up. “How do you know he’s not lying?”

“Oh, come on!”

“I didn’t know if you were lying when I first found you.” Eve had a very motherly tone that sounded all too familiar. “You could’ve been faking that anxiety attack. But I still took you in. Why should I deny the same to someone else who may need it?”

“Fine.” Ren sighs. He turned to me, still scowling. “But don’t think I trust you. Powers like yours are better off contained.”

‘Contained’. That word alone made me short circuit again. Eve sensed my anger. “What’s wrong?” She asked.

“Nothing.” I told her. “It’s just that he basically told me I should be locked up somewhere.”

“No.” He said defensively. “I said you’re too strong for own good.”

“Huh. Never heard that bullshit before.”

Eve speaks again. “That’s enough, you two.”)

If anyone wants to read "24 DS" for themselves, here it is.

edited 23rd Jul '16 4:49:30 PM by Sugarp1e1

Okay, let's ope I can answer these questions-and let's hope these answers are good.

First, do I - the reader - get any unique information from this new character's POV? Yes, the information is meant to be unique to that character. If I'm switching from A to B, then B's POV is unique to B. B's either in a different location from A and has his own ways of reaching a mutual goal, B has information only B knows, or B has insight that A doesn't. Both A and B have the same goal, but have different methods to said goal and different views of the situation.

Second, is that new information literally impossible for me to go on without or to give to me through the main POV character, whether it's by eavesdropping or asking questions? The intention for the switch of POV is for B to be somewhere separate from A, so it's unlikely that the information would be available. Depending on who you are it may or may not be important-do you find it's important to know what B is doing if B seems to know things A does not?

Third, do you have any intention of going back to Character B's POV later, and are we switching to Character B for more than one chapter, making it worth the risk of jostling me out of the story to reorient myself? I do plan on switching back to B and showing more than just one chapter's worth of his character. It's not some random switch, it's meant to give a look into a perspective outside of character A. I suppose B is the Deuteragonist

Fourth, are you doing this as a shortcut to get your readers to connect with the character or explain the story's world? I have this question the most thought, actually. It's not why I intended to do this, but it does more or less explain why I wanted to do this.

edited 23rd Jul '16 6:12:45 AM by HydraGem

Based on that, it sounds like you're in the clear on switching. If Character B is important enough to you that you'll be slapping on the Deutagonist title, then you enjoy and/or understand that character enough to be able to carry a chapter with this guy - which is perfect, because until you can see the importance of this person, your readers won't. And hey - the shortcut idea is a fine one, but sometimes writers won't admit that it's one of the goals, get embarrassed and try to hide it, or don't realize that it's such a great opportunity for this and skip it unintentionally.

You said you had a loooot of characters. Whenever you get to these crossroads, try to go through this process again. And don't worry about one character seeming to know more than another. That happens all the time, and to pull it off well, you usually just have to note how 'smart that character seems' and stick to a single method of how they've been getting that info (e.g, consistently sneaking off to spy, consistently reading someone's letters, consistently eavesdropping, whatever) that you later reveal.

Good luck!

I do have a question related to a story draft I was writing. The setting is in Adventures In Coma Land and the comatose Olapen is dreaming of former times.

This is made even more complicated when her Evil Twin, Odaxitar, is also in the dream as well. Then Misako (the Dream Walker in this scenario) has to play Spot the Imposter amongst the two, before her time runs out. Misako tries to alert Olapen that the whole thing is a dream, but I'm having trouble dropping enough hints into the story.

How do I ensure that there are enough foreshadowing and glitches in-story to convince Olapen that it is a dream? And a way for Misako to snap Olapen out of her comatose state in time?

Here is the draft:

Odaxitar smiles enigmatically at that statement, “This is you, Koko. Am I being too obvious?” “WHAAAT?” Misako facefaults as Olapen looks puzzled at that, “That is not me. That’s just a hand puppet you constructed.”

“That is simply not logical.” Odaxitar says in the background, sulking while holding the hand-puppet, “I like it when things don’t make sense”

“You like it when things are nonsensical?” Misako adds, “That sounds almost exactly like what...” “What you would say?” Odaxitar said in a deadpan emotionless voice, “Of course, I prefer the term 'insane'...”

“You’re just copying exactly what I’m saying out loud...” Misako takes a step back uncertainly, “Almost like a mirror reflection.” “So... what if I am one?” Odaxitar retorts sinisterly at Misako logically while reading a Necronomicon, hir eyes glowing crimson.

“... I knew you’re a doppelganger all along!” Misako glares at Odaxitar, pointing straight at her, “It’s obvious!” At this Odaxitar had prepared a snide comeback quip:

“Misako. You are but merely a puppet for me to control...” Odaxitar adds sinisterly, “Does it please you knowing that I view you as my own marionette on a string, that can dance at my commands at a moment’s notice?” Olapen's only response is to turn her back on the two who were arguing in the background.

edited 27th Jul '16 8:37:47 AM by sabrina_diamond

I don't understand your conflict. If Misako's job is to tell Olapen that she's actually in a coma, why's she being so coy? Why does it matter that there's a doppelganger in the way; tell them both and move past that problem.

Unless you left out a lot of explaination for why Misako's stuck only using hints, or unless the doppelganger chick was actually Misako's doppleganger and she's telling Olapen, "Don't listen to this crazy person! This is the real world," why would you need foreshadowing? Go beyond the fact that this is probably because the audience doesn't know about the coma either (?), and focus on why they're reasonably not allowed to have it blurted out.

Generally when you hit these kind of issues, you're constantly rewriting the scene because you don't have the underlying problem fleshed out yet. It might just be that there's no reason to hint at it at all, because what you should be hinting at is how the hell she's supposed to wake (which is a bigger issue all around). But if you're sure that Olapen just figuring the coma-world is a thing is the more pressing concern, you've gotta be able to say how. Once you've got an airtight reason, it's going to be sooooo much easier to hint at things, because now you'll know exactly what the line is between Info You Can Give and Info You Can't. :D

edited 27th Jul '16 9:20:03 AM by Tartra

Here is another question I have for another of my stories.

In the prequel, the leader of the angels sacrifices one of her own kind to cause an evil curse on the Incubi that causes them to catch on fire and forces succubi to become a One-Gender Race in response... In most of my stories, angels and succubi have a constant rivalry with each other that quickly escalates.

Since this curse is linked to an ongoing Story Arc, is this too confusing for new readers? Also, does this make the leader of the angels seem too evil?

edited 2nd Aug '16 12:58:45 AM by sabrina_diamond

Right now, you're missing every bit of that 'intention' part in Well-Intentioned Extremist.

Might not be evil, might totally be, but because you haven't explained why, I'm assuming they're utter psychopaths who just luvs 'em some succubi BBQ.

One last thing I forgot to mention, the whole thing orchestrated by the leader of the Angels, was in an appease the main Nature God fashion. The fact that this cruel Angel's thesis (in particular) was desperate to get rid of the succubi as a last resort coincided with that...

And yes, I made a Neon Genesis Evangelion pun. I am very aware of that. :D

edited 2nd Aug '16 5:30:05 AM by sabrina_diamond

So it is supposed to be an evil act.

Don't worry about anything being 'too' something. That is insanely subjective, and you'll never account for everyone's interpretations. Just focus on your intent: is this supposed to be black-and-white evil, clearly evil but with some justification, or a good act that was corrupted?

Right now, at its core - again, the core is what you have to focus on - it sounds black-and-white evil. Is that what you're going for?

Yes, the whole story is centered on a total reversal of Black-and-White Morality, angels are feral and evil, and three succubi serve as the good guys in-story. The angel leader is doing an act of evil, but with some good justifications for its own species.

edited 2nd Aug '16 9:22:14 PM by sabrina_diamond

Awesome, you're fine then.

So, I've been working on a fantasy story for a few weeks now, and I'm up to 10 chapters and 23,904 words. I guess a few of my big problems are a) feeling like at least part of it is ripped off of other works (Warhammer being one example), b) feeling like I'm dragging a bit with buildup and exposition, c) having no idea how to write believable intrigue, and d) most of the usual fears about not knowing if anyone will actually read and enjoy my stuff.

Anyone else have these problems, and if so how did you deal with it?

The most important part is: You enjoy it? You can read it and say: This is ok?. Try several times, even re-write it totally, i was trying to make a webcomic for years and now is totally different to the original concept.

Writting is hard.

And about point A). Meh, just write it good, my work is basically a Shin Megami Tensei rip off and i think who is fine, almost every work started as a rip off of something else.

Just try do it the better who you can.

edited 7th Aug '16 7:49:55 PM by KazuyaProta

A question to the people here:

Is possible make a suceful, accurate Genre Desconstruction of a genre who you don't like?

I ask this, becuase ultimately i am being bombarded with hype for the anime Re:Zero, with people claiming it to be the "ultimate desconstruction of the isekai genre" (the Trapped in Another World series, usually with RPG Mechanics, examples: Log Horizon, Sword Art Online (the "daddy of the genre" -despite don`t being in an actual other world, but meh-), Is Wrong To Pick Girls In A Dungeon?, etc.)

Re:Zero supposedly is a Take That! against the "blissful escapism of SAO and their derivates", and after read some chapters of the manga i can said.

The MC is really...inconsistent. He supposedly is a Take That! against the standart LN MC, but he is just dumb, (also, he supposedly is a NEET, but he is totally fine with the fact to be trapped in a world with no internet). He constantly jumps into danger only to be killed (he had a Time reset power, he will be fine, with PTSD but fine) putting others in danger. I know who this is supposed to show who the average LN MC/reader will be a really bad survivor.

Given who most LN M Cs had some of Savior Complex, Subaru is supposedly a Desconstruction of that, showing who is both dangerous, stupid and egoistic. And the series show it...making Subaru(the MC) Properly Paranoid, because the setting actually is a massive Crapsacharine World.

[[ This article say it better https://mageinabarrel.com/2016/07/23/why-i-dropped-rezero/]]

The specific example you give is outside my areas of interest, so I have no particularly useful comments. But in general: I would have once answered with a solid "no". But I've been thinking about it a bit, unrelated, and I think... maybe. It's complicated, though. It's not enough to see the genre you are targeting as simply "dumb". I think someone who wanted to deconstruct a hated genre would need to understand what draws people to the genre, whether by careful study of what works triumph and fail in the genre, or personal experience from having previously enjoyed it. And they'd have to have a clear message as to why the genre is corrupt, possibly beyond redemption. Why the basic tropes of the genre represent something that a thoughtful mind should reject outright. Then, and only then, might a capable writer maybe pull it off... but even then, odds favor crap even more heavily than usual, with post-modernist bullshit^note but I repeat myself or a petty temper tantrum of a work being most probable.

edited 7th Aug '16 8:49:01 PM by KillerClowns

First off, thank you for your earlier response. I will definitely take it to heart and make my stuff as good as possible

As for other stuff, deconstructing a genre you don't like is possible, but there's always the chance of going on an Author Tract and alienating everyone. As KillerClowns said, the author would need to understand what draws people to the work/genre before pointing out its flaws, but Sturgeon's Law risks that people might not go that far and just jump to "This is stupid because it's stupid!!1!" I would use Dakari King Mykan's My Little Unicorn as an example of what happens when this goes really wrong, but that isn't an exact illustration as that falls into Hate Fic more than Deconstruction.

So, I would say it's possible, but difficult.

edited 8th Aug '16 2:00:01 PM by iowaforever

If someone know spanish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNuasi7K7E4

Just for Fun, Perezoso Doom, a latinoamerican anime reviewer, admit support Trump, because he is "a right man with strong ideals", same with Putin. And he think who Porfidio Diaz (the biggest dictator of Mexico) was the best leader ever because he supported the artists.

Is curious, but the same "type" of ideals are very common in certain anime pages. r/The Snob Empire (the subreddit for the fans of That Anime Snob) is full of right winged assholes who coincidentally contantly talk about how the past was so great because the anime was FOR MEN!

Maybe this is the bad place to ask, but, there certain relation between the Right Wing and the Art?

(Ironic, given who for all i know, That Anime Snob is a moderate leftist)

edited 8th Aug '16 1:27:43 PM by KazuyaProta

Most likely no. Some people watch a thing and say that it's the sort of thing supported by their view of the world, some just watch it for fun. I try to keep political views out of mind when watching/reading something, though they always linger.

Maybe someone on the Anime board might be better at explaining this than me.

Gotta tread carefully, but... while no formal studies have been done on the topic, I've noticed no discernible association between anime fandom and political leanings. Some who regard anime fans with contempt want to associate with political enemies, some who are associated with the same attempt to claim a their political leanings and artistic preferences are linked. But as far as I can tell, this is just a standard example of people being utter fetchers on the internet.

edited 8th Aug '16 4:06:49 PM by KillerClowns

Well, I guess I'm glad I created this thread, because I've finally got a use for it. I managed to get 33 pages of my book out in just a couple of weeks, but I haven't typed out so much as a single letter for the last several days. Part of that is because I've had a busy schedule recently, (which has finally freed up, so maybe that will help,) but the other part is that it also just feels like work, or at least it has the way I've been doing it. When I was writing, I put out two pages a day as part of a loose schedule of sorts, but I guess that doing it every single day for so long (long for me anyway,) made it feel more like an obligation than a hobby or anything else. So now, I've become adverse to even looking at the thing, despite genuinely wanting to get that book out and become a published author. And yeah, I understand that writing a book can be considered work, seeing as you're partly writing it with the intent of making money off of it, but the important thing is to arrange things so it doesn't feel that way. But I'm just not sure how to do so. Any suggestions?

Wait, writting don't should be a obligation, it will feel forced.

Hey folks. I'm in the conceptual stages of a somewhat deconstructionist Low Fantasy, centered on a gender-flipped Badass and Child Duo. Currently struggling with plot structure (and a few significant holes), setting details, and how to sidestep a number of negative gender and racial stereotypes.

While I confess I'm not exactly the go-to person when it comes to advice on motivation and time management, my knee-jerk suggestion would be to just take some time off. You're not working under any particularly stringent deadlines writing-wise, right? So maybe if you just take a break from writing to recharge your batteries, your interest will return.

Naturally, the worry there is that idea backfiring and only reducing your passion even further. If you feel that would be a possibility, maybe it would be best to just try to power through it and see if doing so renews your interest? But I feel like, at least when you're still unpublished, writing shouldn't really be a chore. You usually get the best results when you're really feeling your work.

Also, is your story heavily inspired by any existing stories? (I know mine is.) If so, I might also throw out the idea of spending some time revisiting said stories. Maybe if you can renew your appreciation for those, that in turn might get you interested in writing your own once more. And depending on how much time doing so would take, it might allow you to simultaneously give yourself a break from writing.

edited 8th Aug '16 7:46:05 PM by RBluefish

Dear God, I know that pain. Alright, here's a question: how much time do you spend just daydreaming about your next scene? Not writing it down, just playing with it in your mind. Because what I find personally is that I get so caught up in trying to Implement Writing Plan and Schedule Version 6.0 that I lose touch with the parts that make it fun to write. Yes, it's work, but all work and no play makes your writing a very dull read (provided you squeeze that writer's block of boredom).

edited 9th Aug '16 1:15:06 PM by Tartra