Converting some YMMV tropes to In Universe tropes.

I feel that if what started out as a YMMV concept has enough In-Universe examples, then it becomes a valid trope, and could be converted to In Universe Examples Only. I think some have been done so in the past. Can't name any off the top of my head, but I'm certain this does have precedent.

In fact there are a couple tropes that I don't think should be ymmv.

Discredited Meme is listed as both ymmv and In Universe only, when part of the point of In Universe Examples Only is to exclude ymmv examples. Yes, it's ymmv whether you're sick of Chuck Norris Memetic Badass jokes, but if Bob in a show says "I'll punch you in the face if you tell another Chuck Norris joke!", that's objectively an example of the trope.

Accidental Innuendo: supposedly Innocent Innuendo is the In-Universe counterpart, but not when you actually look at the definitions.

• Innocent Innuendo is when context is left out to make something seem dirty.
• Accidental Innuendo is when the context as is comes across as dirty. Are there In-Universe examples of that? Of course. We just need people in the show to react to the thing as though it was dirty, even the person who said the line/made the object can go "That didn't come out right".

I think some of the Shipping tropes should be looked at for this, as some of them by design are common in Fan Fiction. Die for Our Ship is an obvious one, as its presence in a fic gives it objective narrative use.

edited 12th Jun '15 2:14:51 AM by Karxrida

Yeah, I've seen arguments in defense of it before, but it always struck me as really weird that tropes listed under "in-universe examples only" could still be listed as YMMV.

It's possible for a trope to fall under both In-Universe Examples Only and YMMV. Mostly because the latter includes a whole lot of different concepts. But the basic example would be something that's read between the lines. It's up to interpretation whether it's actually true or not, but it's still in-universe.

Technically In Universe Examples Only means no ymmv examples can be listed. So it's missing the point to list a trope as both.

Now I know this might be a major thing to add, but this is about long term projects, so...

I think there are enough in-universe uses of Fridge Logic, Fridge Brilliance, and Fridge Horror to make them in universe only. That doesn't mean headscratchers pages need to go, just that many shows do these tropes, either their own shows (sometimes overlapping with Lampshade Hanging) or other shows (usually review shows).

Dude, Not Funny! needs its YMMV banner removed now that it's been made In Universe Examples Only. Having both banners just causes confusion and leads to Edit Wars.

Jumping the Shark also still has its YMMV banner despite being In Universe Examples Only.

How did these pages become IUEO? If it's an enforceable decision (like a TRS topic) then the simplest fix would be to remove the opinion examples and remove the pages from the YMMV indexes.

Well even if it's that simple now, it wasn't before. Still if we're going to take tropes off the ymmv list, it would be better to have consensus in some way.

edited 26th Nov '15 1:11:48 AM by DragonQuestZ

Putting Propaganda Piece in here, since almost all the examples listed on the page are Show Within a Show examples, so the context of the works mark them as propaganda.

Why not make a new trope as an in-universe only equivalent to the YMMV trope and move the in-universe examples there?

edited 10th Feb '16 1:22:44 PM by maxwellsilver

I'm with Septimus here. When and how were those tropes converted to in-universe only? There doesn't seem to be any trope repair shop threads on them; Dude, Not Funny! has a thread suggesting something be done about the in-universe examples, but it was never opened for discussion.

Is it really appropriate to completely redefine a trope in this forum rather than the Trope Repair Shop?

Also, you seem to have completely overlooked Heh Heh, You Said "X", which seems like what you were thinking of.

An in-universe example of Accidental Innuendo would be fans of a Show Within a Show finding innuendo in innocuous phrases.

edited 15th May '16 3:50:34 PM by maxwellsilver

bump for consensus re. max & Septimus' comments

Re: listing YMMV tropes as in-universe. As explained at the bottom of What Goes Where on the Wiki, YMMV tropes can be listed as in-universe, if they are indeed an example of that trope.

I think there is a confusion inherent in this Long Term Project. Unless it was decided that a trope should be in universe only, through the TRS or such. Any trope listed on both indices should be converted to a standard YMMV.

edited 19th Jun '16 11:00:54 AM by war877

As I asked earlier, does anyone know how and why tropes like Dude, Not Funny! were changed to in-universe only?

Because it'd be full of racist jokes, jokes about the Holocaust, etc. We didn't want it to become a catalogue of racist material, I believe. Real Life on that gets too close to breaking Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment. Also for all the political stuff that could be on there.

edited 8th Jan '18 1:54:43 AM by TheOneWhoTropes

Which is ironic, considering that the trope's inverse, Narm still has non in-universe-examples, (Though it's subpages are listed as Flame Bait)

They shoudn't have the banner, the trope used to be Flame Bait but isn't anymore.

I think Narm was on Darth Wiki for a while and everything there is Flame Bait (and examples aren't entirely forbidden like Main/ Flame Bait tropes, hence the subpages), so I'm guessing that the banners on subpages are left over from before it became a regular YMMV trope and are still there due to an oversight.

edited 24th Mar '18 5:23:42 AM by GastonRabbit