The Scrappy Cleanup

I'm not too familiar with the fandom, but I've heard of fans of Kairi and Roxas. Base Breaker feels more likely, but don't take my word for it.

At worst, all of the listed characters are Base Breakers, at best at least 3 of them(Roxas, Namine, Xion) are Ensemble Darkhorses. I suggest axing the whole page because none of them qualify as The Scrappy, and I say this as a member of the Kingdom Hearts fandom.

Is this thread addressing a page at a time, or can we chip in about works we're familiar with? I just saw the Bleach entry on the Anime & Manga page. Most of it is just complaining about characters some people dislike with some major word cruft problems going on (and zero context in places):

Tousen and Orihime genuinely do have large hatedoms, the author has even had to intervene over the hatred towards Orihime. However, they'd need to be cleaned up, and there's a question over whether Orihime is this trope or Base Breaker.

Anime examples that should stay: Lurichiyo and Nozomi, but they need more context.

After that, everything else should be removed:

• Americans Hate Tingle: Hinamori (beloved by the Japanese fandom and Americans hate her for all the reasons the Japanese fans love her).
• Base Breaker: Kenpachi
• Hatesink: Komamura's ancestor - there's nothing redeeming about him and he's very clearly written that way because he's lampshaded in-universe as an example of the Buddhist "sin" of ignorance.
• Vocal Minority: Kon, Aizen, Kannonji, Soifon.

There are some generic comments about X Cution, the Bount and Vandenreich, which are so generic they're practically paragraph-long zero context examples. I think they should be removed. The members of the X Cution and Vandenreich wouldn't be Scrappies anyway as fans either liked them, were apathetic, or we're dealing with villains. The Bount are almost universally despised, but they're villains. The modsouls probably are Scrappies, they're certainly disliked enough, but they're mentioned in a zero context example.

Basically, out of everything on that page, I think Tousen, Lurichiyo and Nozomi are definitely examples and Orihime needs to be discussed. Everything else should go, although the three Bount modsouls probably could stay with more context required.

edited 17th May '15 10:24:44 AM by Wyldchyld

Yeah, you can chip in with whatever you find.

For that particular series, I have no clue, since I've (deliberately) avoided it. Might be able to help with the writing, if necessary, though.

Well, for rewrites of the characters I think should remain, I have this:

• Tousen's reason for siding with Aizen at the end of the Soul Society Arc earned him instant dislike. He wanted peace and was fighting for it via the path of least bloodshed - by siding with the villain that had instigated civil war among the Shinigami and was now inciting war between Hollows and Shinigami. His reasoning was therefore dismissed by fans as stupid and hypocritical. When his blindness is temporarily cured and he sees Komamura's face for the first time, he instantly insults what had been his oldest and closest friend, cementing the fandom's dislike.
• Nozomi's existence was justified by rewriting canon character backgrounds, stealing unique canon abilities, reducing Rukia and Orihime to bit-roles that consisted solely of shilling her, removing Ichigo as the Main Character to turn Kon into her Love Interest, and making her more powerful than even Yamamoto.

At the moment, all that's written about Lurichiyo and the modsouls are this:

• Lurichiyo Kasumioji was hated for her Spoiled Brat demeanour as a princess.
• The Modsouls were reviled during their debut, but it softened a bit afterward. By the end of the Bount arc, once they were reduced to comic relief, they quickly got hated again.

I'm so apathetic towards these four characters that I'm not sure I could adequately rewrite them (I can't even remember the names of the three modsouls).

According to the Bleach YMMV page, the only Bount Modsoul with a Scrappy designation is Lirin, and she's listed as Rescued from the Scrappy Heap. Orihime is listed in detail as Base Breaker and Broken Base, with a zero context Damsel Scrappy reference.

Over on the Damsel Scrappy page, Lurichiyo and Orihime have the following descriptions:

• Princess Lurichiyo. A bratty, spoiled rich kid who can't seem to stop getting kidnapped. After Ichigo and crew have the kidnapper cornered and it looks like the filler arc is over, Amagai shows up, reveals he is a villain, and kidnaps her again. Made more irritating for some by the fact that the arc came up in the middle of the Hueco Mundo arc and after Ichigo's battle with Grimmjow.
• During the Arrancar arc, Orihime also got this reputation among parts of the fandom (Neutral Female and Say My Name have all been cited as contributing factors). It's rather unfair, considering the terrible situation she was put in by Aizen and the Arrancar.

edited 17th May '15 10:53:17 AM by Wyldchyld

Let me try some rewrites:

• The Modsoul trio of Ririn, Noba, and Kurōdo were reviled during their debut in the Bount Arc for their individual traits. Ririn's sometimes loud and arrogant, Noba's too shy, and Kurôdo talks too much for the audience's taste. By the end of the Bount Arc they were not only reduced to comic relief, but allowed to leak into the canon material of the Arrancar Arc, quickly increasing their earlier hate.

• Rurichiyo Kasumiōji is a spoiled brat of a rich kid who's prone to being kidnapped just to keep her unpopular Filler arc going. Fans also find her Third-Person Person quirk annoying to listen to, and just plain don't like how useless she was in said arc.

edited 17th May '15 1:26:29 PM by VeryMelon

Those rewrites look good to me. I'd probably avoid saying "unnecessarily", though. It's a little complainy on its own, since it's a bit "take my word for it". Also, are they from adapted material that's completely original with no input from the original creator?

I don't know how much input Kubo had in making them, but the Modsouls are anime-only characters that don't exist in the source materiel.

I took your advice and edited the Modsoul entry.

To whoever's axing the KH page, leave an edit note in the main YMMV page for the series that none of the four characters qualify and to look at the definition of the Scrappy before adding any more examples.

Will keep that in mind. It's worth noting that Sora was originally on the list for the same reasons as Kairi, so he was cut per the discussion here earlier.

Hey. Sorry for disappearing for the last month. I had school stuff to finish dealing with.

I wanted to bring Ronald Shiner back up, because I never really followed up my initial proposal for him in this post: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13598973560A64980100&page=19#472

Anyway, looking at Dead Rising's Scrappy entry, there are only three other entries, so it's not too overcrowded. They are:

Kent is widely hated, due to his obnoxious laugh as well as his continuous taunting. This is justified in that he is actually a psychopath. Many players don't actually know this due to killing him during the photo challenge, or from just ignoring him.

The Convicts in the original Dead Rising, for reasons that are extensively covered throughout this page.

Otis. Eight words: "Don't cut me off like that! It's RUDE!" His annoying tendancy to call all the time, which leaves you defenseless and then when you drop the call, most likely because a horde of zombies are trying to rip your guts out, he berates you for not letting him finish.

Do you think that Ronald still qualifies, since he's a survivor that fans would actually pass up rather than save because of how insufferably he is? And if so, could someone help me think of a write-up for him? I tend to be sort of wordy, so I would appreciate the help.

edited 21st May '15 10:42:22 PM by TheFox

The Final Fantasy page has a nattery entry regarding some FFXIII characters. I know the game itself is very divisive, but some of these entries seem like complaining about the characters simply because they exist in a game they dislike.

Thanks for the rewrite!

Should The Scrappy entry for Bleach be updated with the above entries, or do they need to be discussed further? Apologies, but I'm not sure how this works.

edited 22nd May '15 4:44:03 PM by Wyldchyld

Hey, I noticed an inconsistency with the Gravity Falls page that I want to bring up.

The Gravity Falls teens (Wendy, Lee, Nate, Tambry, and Thompson) are collectively listed as Ensemble Darkhorses. However, according to the Recap page for the episode "The Love God", Wendy, Lee, and Nate became Scrappies after that episode due to them acting like massive jerks upon finding out that Robbie and Tambry are dating, only making up at the very end due to Thompson's tactical use of his Butt-Monkey status.

Since their statuses are pretty conflicted, I think that we need to make a decision on how to deal with them. By the sounds of it, I think that Thompson and Tambry might still qualify as Darkhorses, but Wendy, Lee, and Nate are probably Base Breakers at best at this point, if not outright Scrappies.

Anyone else have any opinions on this?

We probably need to ask a fan that actually interacts with the fandom for this one. Make a post in the show's discussion page or its thread our forums to get a reference.

edited 24th May '15 1:15:08 AM by Karxrida

The entire page has a lot of natter and doubtful examples. I'd need more time to go over all of that, though.

One of the problems with the Final Fantasy entries is that most of them admit the characters they list are actually base breakers and not full on scrappies.

So, members from that page that need to be cut on that basis: Gau, Aerith, Yuffie, Rinoa, Tidus, Lightning.

After that, I'll start sorting out the natter.

edited 24th May '15 8:14:37 AM by VeryMelon

I'll agree with that without much deliberation. They have significant fandoms.

Wait, Aerith was there? Different page? She's most certainly not qualified for The Scrappy. Considering how standard the "Aerith Resurrection Fic" is, it's kind of impossible for her to not have a significant fandom.

edited 24th May '15 9:07:13 AM by AnotherDuck

Aerith was a commented out example, for some reason.

I've cleaned up the Bleach entry on the Anime & Manga page for The Scrappy, and accordingly on the YMMV page for the work as well.

Can a character be both The Scrappy and a Base Breaker? I notice Orihime is listed as both The Scrappy and Base Breaker on the Bleach YMMV page. Should we revisit her?

edited 26th May '15 5:08:41 PM by Wyldchyld

One. Not both.

edited 26th May '15 6:29:46 PM by AnotherDuck

If she's listed as both, Base Breaker is probably a safe bet.

Okay, I've removed Orihime from The Scrappy and left her as a Base Breaker. I've removed all Scrappy-derived tropes (such as Alas, Poor Scrappy, Rescued from the Scrappy Heap and Damsel Scrappy) from any Bleach character that has not been left with The Scrappy designation. I'm working from the assumption that if they're not The Scrappy then they cannot be rescued from it or a damsel version or an 'alas' version.

The Bleach characters left with Scrappy-related tropes are therefore the following: Tousen, the Modsouls, Riruchiyo and Nozomi.

If everyone's happy with that, I'll leave it as it currently stands for this work.

It's good.

Right, now that I've had proper time^note  and remembered I was going to do it in the first place which totally wasn't the main reason for the delay to go through TheScrappy.Final Fantasy, I have a few concerns, formatting aside.

FFVIII starts with "Some people don't like Selphie due to..." which is always a warning flag. Also, when the game was new I was reading a lot of fanfics from various sources (at the time, Fanfiction Dot Net wasn't the mammoth it is today, I believe), and I got a decent view of the overall fandom. Simply put, Selphie has a lot of fans. Selphie/Irvine fics are rather popular. I think she's got way too many fans to qualify.

For FFIX, I'm doubtful about the spread of Freya's hatedom. A shift so long after the game's heyday isn't likely to be that significant in the grand scheme of things, although I'd like a second opinion.

Just want to point out that while Seymour of FFX is a villain and not supposed to be liked, the hate seems to be more "stay dead and away from the plot", which still marks him as a Scrappy. "Least favourite" isn't the same as "most hated", but I think a lot of people hate him.

In FFXII, I can see Vaan as being hated enough, but the way I've seen it, Penelo is more of a "meh" character. not liked, but not exactly hated either.

FFXIII has a few characters I don't think qualify:

Hope I believe has always been popular in Japan as far as I know, so it's more of an Americans Hate Tingle situation for him. However, on its own YMMV page, he's also listed as Rescued from the Scrappy Heap.

Vanille has haters, sure, but she's also got a lot of fans.

Snow, yeah, no. Lots of people liked him in that game.