Is this an example?

Seems like a couple editors are trying to shoehorn Ensemble Dark Horse on YMMV.ARMS. I've already removed the entry twice so I figured I should get a second opinion this time.

YMMV.ARMS

• Ensemble Dark Horse: All the girls got their fair share of attention when they were revealed but if anyone has gotten the most it would have to be Twintelle. This movie star was one of the last characters to be revealed for the current roster and soon afterwards got a lot of fanart in her honor. As the events above mention her popularity got her to be added to the Testpunches when she originally was not a possible playable choice.

My problem with this entry is Twintelle is part of the main roster in isn't that much more or less promoted that the other characters in the game.

Ensemble Dark Horse has its own cleanup thread.

That said, a character of her tier (in terms of prominence) doesn't really qualify for the trope. She'd probably have to be many times more popular than all of the other characters put together, to the point where she's more recognisable than the game itself and more popular than the rest of the characters put together.

edited 5th Jun '17 4:44:17 AM by AnotherDuck

In Neon Genesis Evangelion, the Giant Impact (also known as "First Impact" in-universe) is stated to have been the result of an alien starfaring vessel crashing into primordial Earth, with said vessel's rocky exterior separating from the vessel and coalescing into the Moon; as for the real-life explanation, it's a cover-up story by the Ancient Conspiracy in-universe. Further details here.

Is this an example of Real Event, Fictional Cause?

edited 5th Jun '17 6:53:44 AM by MarqFJA

Sure, it's a historical event and it's being upgraded with a fictional cause.

OK, but how about the example writeup? Does the above look passable?

I would remove the external link ("Further details here."). It's bad practice to send users to other wikis. Someone interested enough can find it themselves. Otherwise, the example looks great.

edited 5th Jun '17 7:26:39 AM by Fighteer

Invisible Advertising is when a product, show or movie is rarely, if at all, advertised by its parent company. Now, if a video game is being released for two or more systems, but only one of the versions is being properly advertised, would the other versions count for this trope?

For example, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess was released for GameCube and Wii in 2006, but only the latter version was advertised as it was for the then-new system. The GCN version was overlooked (and in Japan it could only be purchased through Nintendo's website anyway). A similar thing happened with The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Visible Advertising for Switch version, Invisible for Wii U).

The game's visible in advertising. That it's not advertised for every single system it's released to doesn't really make it invisible. It's like saying something is invisible if you don't count all the ways it's visible in. Or to put it in another way, if it's advertised for one system, sales are going to increase for the same game for other systems as well.

Understood. Thank you.

Is this an example of I Choose to Stay?

• After Steven and Lars from Steven Universe get stuck on Homeworld, Lars gains the ability to let Steven access Rose's pocket dimension through his hair. Steven discovers he can enter through Lars's hair and exit through Lion's mane, giving them an escape to Earth. But since Lars can't go through his own hair, he remains stranded on Homeworld. The Off Colors - who had been incredibly excited about going to Earth - decide to stay behind and protect him while they think of another way to leave Homeworld.

I would say no, since the problem is the way to go home (leaving someone behind), not the concept of going home in the first place.

Also, it's a useless example, since all relevant context it behind spoiler markup.

I'm not sure if this is Battletrophy, inverted, or some other trope I haven't been able to find.

In Fer-de-lance, Nero Wolfe has enough evidence that, if he turns it over to the police immediately, they could arrest (and convict) the murderer. For a number of reasons, he chooses instead to let the killer know this, and also that he will give the evidence to the police the next day. Before they get there the next day, the killer succeeds in offing his final victim in a Taking You with Me action ( crashing the airplane they're both in.). It's strongly implied that Wolfe expected this end. it turns out that the killer, as a way of thanking Wolfe for leaving him a revolver, so to speak, arranged for Wolfe to be given the (particularly ingenious) murder weapon.

So, it's not a straight use of Battle Trophy — Wolfe doesn't take it from his defeated opponent. I think it could be an inversion — rather than the trophy being taken, it's freely given. Or it could be something else.

Thoughts?

edited 6th Jun '17 12:49:35 PM by Madrugada

Maddy, I know you're new to this and all, but please link the tropes you wish to discuss.

I don't think Battle Trophy necessarily requires the trophy to be taken. By the nature of the trope, it's the most common, but I don't think it's strictly necessary. The important part is that it's something that symbolises the defeat of the opponent. Honour and respect are curious things, but most people don't appreciate being killed. In rare cases, some do, and could willingly leave a trophy behind to someone who defeats them. I don't think that makes it any less of a trophy. It still has the same symbolic value of the victory.

However, that's assuming it's a gift meant as a trophy. If it's used as a piece of evidence, I don't think it qualifies, as I don't think it's a trophy as such in that use.

I thought I did link it. Missed the internal capital. Ooops.

It is meant as a ... not trophy, quite, but token of something. It's not needed as evidence, since the murderer suicides (in a way that he knows for certain will succeed) before he can be arrested.

edited 6th Jun '17 3:32:00 PM by Madrugada

Yeah, that's kind of how I interpreted it. Sometimes items like that are still needed for evidence, even after the suspect dies (since you usually still need to confirm that is indeed the perp), but I didn't think it was the case here. Still needed to be confirmed, though, because assumptions.

There's also the issue of whether it counts as a battle or not, and whether that's important for the trope. Looking at the examples, there are a bunch in the video game section that just specify "missions" or something similar, so I'm unclear on that. I think it's enough that it's some kind of duel, but again, trophies like these are kind of rare outside combat, so it's hard to tell.

Anyway, it seems like it holds the same meaning as a trophy, and at least to me, that seems to be the heart of the trope.

That might be what's hanging me up. Wolfe never expresses that he particularly wants it, and it's even left hanging what he does with it. It's just a kind of a throw-away mention at the very end. There are a few (very few!) things mentioned over the course of the 70-something stories that are trophies of one kind or another and are mentioned in later stories as Wolfe still having them (There's a piece of petrified wood that's used as a murder weapon in one story that he uses as a paperweight, for example), but as far as I can recall, this isn't one of them.

I am wondering... does it count as Palate Propping when it's a character doing the propping with his whole body? Like here...

"Especially unlucky protagonists ... may have no poles on hand, and will have to resort to using their own bodies to keep the beast's jaws open..."

Step one in figuring out if an example fits is actually reading the trope description.

This is probably the point where I'd go, "Anyone else?" On the more subjective feelings front, the example feels more like it's trying to describe an unusual application of the trope, rather than trying to shoehorn something that doesn't fit.

edited 7th Jun '17 4:37:44 AM by AnotherDuck

I'm inclined to believe Battle Trophy fits. The battle itself was the conflict of Criminal vs Cop. If Wolfe chose to dump it in the trash afterwards, I'd say it was subverted, but the criminal clearly intended the weapon to be kept as a memento of their conflict.

Ok. I think I'll mark it as "inverted" — The victor doesn't take a trophy; the loser gives one. If you state the trope played straight as "The Victor of a battle Takes a trophy.", both the subject and verb are reversed: "The Loser of a battle Gives a trophy."

edited 8th Jun '17 8:36:44 AM by Madrugada

And back up to the Steven Universe question in 3910. I think that it's I Choose to Stay for the Off-Colors — they want to go, and they could go, but choose to stay to protect the one character who can't. The only issue is that they aren't going "home", but I don't think that's a trope-breaker here.

edited 8th Jun '17 8:43:48 AM by Madrugada

Repost and adding from @3870 'cause I didn't get a clear answer?:

Are these amounts of distortion too much for Real Name as an Alias, and presumably, would be Sue Donym instead?

edited 10th Jun '17 7:51:25 PM by Malady

Couldn't find anything in Search about this, but what's the etiquette for updating old examples? For instance, the WWE entry for Cast Full of Pretty Boys is pretty outdated since some of the guys mentioned don't work for the company anymore. I know wiki rules advise against recency bias when writing examples, so is the recommended action to pare down the entry into something more time-neutral?

edited 10th Jun '17 8:37:45 PM by NorthRaider

It doesn't matter if someone stopped working. If it was true at one point in history, it will always be an example. Related to Examples Are Not Recent.

I wonder if WWE is an example, though. The trope isn't about having "quite a few" characters who fit. It's about being the default look of the cast. It should be far easier to list the exceptions than the examples. It should also be above the general Hollywood Homely and Generic Cuteness standards (i.e. everyone's prettier than average by default).

I had a general question in regards to a possible Badass Normal entry or two I want to make in Red Panda Adventures: Is a mastery of hypnosis too close to a superpower?

The Red Panda is an expy/homage of pulp superheroes like The Shadow and The Green Hornet. He's regularly gone up against Mad Scientists, the creations of mad scientists, Super Speedsters, and even went toe to toe with "an ubermensch who draws power from the sun" and won handily.

His primary weapons are well honed detective and martial arts skills, as well as a knack for gadgets (a la Batman), but also has in his arsenal a finely trained ability with hypnosis. It's explicitly not magic, as a magic using superhero notes the Red Panda has little aptitude for magic and refers to hypnosis as a science of the mind (iirc). The fact his most used trick is tricking hoods into shooting where they think he is and getting into peoples' heads for interrogation, I'm inclined to think yes it does.

There's plenty of other, legit entries for Badass Normal in the series (his partner does everything he does without hypnosis and he has agents that, in wwii, form a Badass Crew to fight in the occult war with Nazi Germany) but I wanted to make doubly sure before I include the Red Panda himself in this roster.