Okay, just by looking at the name, were you able to tell it was a horror trope?

The page claims that candlelit baths only happen when someone's about to get murdered, but I'm skeptical, and it's certainly not an instant association I have.

I think something like "Deadly Candlelit Bath" or "Candlelit Baths Summon Murderers" or basically anything that indicates the murder part would be much better.

(Edit because I was using wikidot italics markup. Whoops.)

edited 13th Sep '12 8:20:17 PM by Pig_catapult

The obvious solution is a trope transplant, and turn Candlelit Bath into a fanservice supertrope.

Heck no.

Ditto Discar.

I'm not sure what would be fanservicey about a Candlelit Bath.

Nothing in particular about the candlelit part (at least that comes to mind), but bath scenes tend to be fanservicy.

Although now that I think about it, I fail to see what adding candles does to distinguish something from an ordinary bath scene anyway.

Do we have any evidence that it's indeed ambiguous instead of just "I don't understand it"? Especially since

I don't see any need for a rename unless there is significant misuse as a non-horror trope. The name doesn't have to show everything.

Candlelit baths are traditionally quiet, peaceful, possibly romantic, relaxing since the candles may be scented, etc.. As a horror trope, I expect the contrast to be emphasised.

Well, I was half expecting to see the old color scheme, but it is old enough that it didn't really need a YKTTW... or any starting examples, for that matter. So it might be from the time when we were overdefining tropes.

I concur with Discar.

I'd want a misuse check before agreeing on a rename.

Ditto, and where is the fanservice? I only see a murder/accident trope here.

I'm going to be incredibly original and concur with Discar.

I've seen a few shows with candlelit baths taking place and don't remember anyone getting murdered in them.

For what is supposedly "invariably the point where" something bad happens, there sure are a lot of aversions listed in the page's examples! Something like half of the examples are non-examples where either nothing scary or upsetting happens, or something interrupts the bath, but it's not horrifying or dangerous. I would classify such non-examples as "misuse". (There ARE a few legitimate subversions listed, where we're set up to expect a murder in the tub but it doesn't happen.)

Certainly it's common that something terrible interrupts the bath, because just watching somebody go in for a bath is kind of pointless from a narrative perspective unless it's just for the fanservice, and horror tends to attack people who are in a vulnerable state (and it's hard to get more vulnerable than naked and relaxing). But it's hardly universal.

Here's a breakdown for the examples on the page itself:

Correct Use - Played straight or true subversion

• Hitman Blood Money
• Stigmata
• The Big Lebowski
• Mirrors
• Hard Candy
• Addams Family Values
• The Princess and the Warrior
• Cabin Fever
• Hostel
• Children of the Corn: Revelation
• CSI New York
• CSI
• Law And Order Criminal Intent
• The X-Files ("Squeeze", "Irresistable")
• Burkes Law
• John Dies At The End
• Jean-Paul Marat
• Real life fire hazard

Misuse - The bath is not interrupted, or is interrupted by something mundane

• GI Joe: Cobra
• Star Trek: Insurrection
• WKD advert
• Short Circuit
• City of Angels
• A Mango Shaped Space
• Supernatural "Dead in the Water".
• Castle
• Friends
• Brothers and Sisters
• Bones
• The X-Files ("Chinga", "Hollywood A.D.")
• Scrubs
• Sex And The City
• Ozy and Millie
• Beast Wars

Iffy - I couldn't decide.

• Glade Wisp Flameless Candles (I can't watch the video while at work)
• Foxtrot (not sure if this is a real subversion or not; Quincy in the bath is treated as horrific)
• Poltergeist (nothing bad happens in the bath, but it is used as a device to raise the tension)
• Sherlock Holmes (I can't recall if anything horrible actually happens in the bath.)
• Desperate Romantics (I don't think this is a real use of the trope, but I'm not sure.)

So, we have nearly 50% misuse (41%-54% depending on the iffy ones) on the PAGE ITSELF, where it clearly says at the top that this is a horror trope.

I think there's enough "aversions" listed on the page alone to justify a rename and steer this away from the omnipresence it claims.

edited 14th Sep '12 7:42:11 AM by Escher

Nicely done. I agree with a transplant. There are clearly two tropes in play.

edited 14th Sep '12 9:10:21 AM by AnotherDuck

There are clearly a lot of candlelit baths that do not signify horror. We have not established multiple tropes.

I think there are two, though one's a subtrope of the other. Then again, that's only if you define "taking a candlelit bath" as a trope in itself.

In a horror story, if someone takes a candlelit bath, doom. It's a fairly classic scene. If you skip the mood lighting, or take a shower, there's only a slightly lower risk of doom. There aren't that many listed examples of that, though, since horror stories tend to be more of the B-Movie kind, and thus more forgettable.

edited 14th Sep '12 9:43:57 AM by AnotherDuck

I think there's probably some sort of "Candlelit Baths Are Relaxing and/or Sensual" sort of trope to be had here, which is what the horror trope derives its punch from, but can, as the 50% misuse suggests, still occur without the horror trope.

ETA: Should we start a crowner? There seems to be multiple issues at hand here. First being "do we rename?", and second being "is there a Missing Supertrope?".

edited 14th Sep '12 4:27:21 PM by Pig_catapult

Yeah, a Page Action crowner would do wonders.

I don't think it's a missing supertrope as much as a series of related tropes.

Bathtub Scene is the supertrope. Subtropes include:

Candlelit Bath: A romantic bath setting with candlelight, bubbles, rose petals, or other such accoutrements, which can be a setup for almost any other bathing trope, but almost always either romantic or horrific. Deadly Bath endings are common because the extensive calm setup makes the suddenly violent end more shocking.

Deadly Bath: A bathing scene ends with the bather getting killed (or, rarely, something otherwise awful happening to them). This is commonly because of an Electrified Bathtub, Bath Suicide, or "Psycho" Shower Murder Parody. May lead to a Blood Bath.

edited 18th Sep '12 8:09:16 AM by Escher

Well said.

I agree with this summary.

yes

That pretty much matches what I was thinking. Didn't know Bathtub Scene was a specific trope, though.

Sixthing.