Five-Man Band cleanup

Would some one please remove the five man band for magic the gathering. It is pure speculation with not all of the characters even having met each other much less forming a team. Even worse then speculation it is speculation that has been confirmed false.

This Five-Man Band from Waynehead was kind of ignored so I'm reposting it.

• Damey and his friends
  • The Leader - Damey Wayne - He wears a leg brace.
  • The Lancer - Marvin - He loves sports and likes to say: “Yo, yo, yo.”
  • The Smart Guy - Mo' Money - He’s the moneygrubber and hustler of the group.
  • The Big Guy - Toof - He’s got Sweet Tooth and likes to eat candy.
  • The Chick - Roz - She’s the only female in the group.

edited 2nd Oct '17 3:28:40 PM by PricklyVermian

Yeah, that sounds like a shoehorn with the given context.

Wow....that is awful. I can't even imagine how wearing a leg brace relates to being the leader or eating candy to the big guy.

He's not even big, just tall. Looking at them, it looks like Marvin is the big guy.

Yeah! And Mo’ Money is The Smart Guy.

Could somebody who has editing access to the Five-Man Band page please look at this

• Thomas and his friends in The Death Cure
  • The Leader: Thomas, The Hero of the story who is the unofficial leader of the team.
  • The Lancer: Newt, Thomas' best friend and most trusted ally, who's much quieter and less level headed than Thomas.
  • The Smart Guy: Jorge, Who's knowledge of WICKED and the outside world are invaluable to the group.
  • The Big Guy: Minho, Thomas' other friend who's much stronger and aggressive than the rest of the group.
  • The Chick: Brenda, Thomas' Love Interest who provides emotional support for him and usually is the one to break up arguments among the group.

You need to explain why they fit in their respective roles not just describe the characters. Also don't add a Five-Man Band to the page unless it's accepted here first.

A character's physical size doesn't change weather they are The Big Guy or not.

x2 That example looks fine to me.

I've got a question about the Five Bad Band trope page. On the 'Other' page, under 'Other Stuff', there's the following example (the very last example on the page):

• Those Wacky Nazis
  • Big Bad - Adolf Hitler
  • Co-Dragons - Herman Goering and Heinrich Himmler
  • The Evil Genius - Albert Speer
  • The Brute - Wilhelm Keitel
  • The Dark Chick - Josef Goebbels

Is this an acceptable example? The 'Other Stuff' section seems weird to me in general, so perhaps I'm not getting what the section is for.

edited 29th Oct '17 5:14:12 PM by Wyldchyld

Good God, no.

Troping real-world people, zero context, more than five members (with none being a Sixth Ranger). Any one of those would be enough to disqualify it.

Canned it.

Thanks for that.

From The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind: Five-Man Band - During the war between the Chimer and the Dwemer, we had this on the Chimer side:

• The Hero: Nerevar
• The Lancer: Vivec
• The Smart Guy: Sotha Sil
• The Chick: Almalexia
• The Big Guy: Voryn Dagoth

Nerevar as hero? He's a Frontline General, leader of the Chimer, and general all-around champion, so it works. Vivec as lancer? He's a mystically-inclined chief advisor to Nerevar's more here-and-now leadership, so it works (though Vivec would have you believe he was the leader and Nerevar was the lancer). Sotha Sil as the smart guy? Clockwork city, tinkering with the laws of nature, building automatons to counter the Dwemer automatons, no question about it. Almalexia as chick? She's described as "Nerevar's queen" and "the Mother of the Chimer", so it works (though some versions of what happened have her in more of an Action Girl role).

Voryn Dagoth/Dagoth Ur/Sharmat as big guy? Here's the problem: there are at least as many versions of his role in events as there are tellings of the war, ranging from Nerevar's best friend to Nerevar's arch-enemy to a divine force of evil. None of the ones I've found, though, place him as the go-to guy for physical solutions. However, I can't say for certain that it's wrong — I've found nine versions of the war, and literally the only thing they agree on is that the Dwemer army and the combined armies of at least some of the Chimer Great Houses were present. They don't even agree that the Chimer and Dwemer were fighting each other — one version has them allied against an outside threat. Who's to say that there isn't a version I haven't found that has Voryn Dagoth in a big guy role?

edited 19th Nov '17 4:46:28 PM by Carnildo

side note, i'd add that being an action girl doesn't disqualify you from being the chick. it doesn't demand that she's passsive

I'm going to go ahead and call this a total shoehorn.

Smells a lot like shoehorning to me, though I admit that's the only Elder Scrolls game I haven't played. But! A FMB has to be a team, and it has to have only five members (ignoring the sixth ranger for the moment). A war usually has a whole bunch more than five people on a side. And the fact that Almalexia is described as the queen suggests a whole different dynamic than what FMB is intended to describe. In fact, my guess would be that the only reason she could be considered part of the team is because she's the ultimate boss. And probably has a full court of her own, with Nerevar as her chief general? Which would put him in charge for matters of war, but wouldn't make her his subordinate overall.

That combined with your doubts about Dagoth makes me strongly suspect that this is at most a collection of people who bear no more than a superficial resemblance to FMB.

Apart from the Dagoth-as-big-guy bit, it works: five out of the nine accounts describe Nerevar, Vivec, Sotha Sil, and Almalexia as the leadership team of the Chimer side of the war, and the three of those that place Dagoth Wossname on the Chimer side describe him as the fifth member of that group.

Except Five-Man Band is not any group of five people.

To elaborate, merely filling the five individual archetypes is not enough to make a Five-Man Band. The trope also requires a very specific team dynamic, and the five members may not be cherry picked from a larger ensemble.

Disclaimer: I know nothing about the work in question beyond what I've learned on this thread, so I'm not qualified to say whether we're looking at a true Five-Man Band or some other ensemble with a superficial, coincidental resemblance.

Also, The Hero has long since been removed from the Five-Man Band because of the shoehorning. It was replaced by The Leader.

• There is no larger ensemble. Depending on who's telling the story, there are either four (Nerevar, Vivec, Almalexia, Sotha Sil) or five (plus Voryn Dagoth) people who are mentioned as individuals on the Chimer side. Yes, if you think about it, there's a implied supporting cast of thousands, but they're mentioned collectively (eg. "the Chimer armies") if at all, and from a storytelling perspective, are treated as scenery, not characters.
• They function as a team. Again depending on who's telling the story, they are usually referred to collectively using terms such as "Nerevar and his companions" (exact terms vary depending on the bias of the storyteller).
• Four out of five of them clearly fit the FMB roles. There is some variation of who is in which role depending on who is telling the story (eg. Vivec would have you believe he was the Leader and Nerevar was the Lancer).

I'm trying to decide if I should comment the example out as having zero-context, or remove it for being wrong. Given the nature of how the story is told and the nature of the game world, it's quite possible that whoever added it was working from an account of the war that I haven't yet found.

If the group fits in some accounts but not others, then the example text must state which account(s) the group qualifies under.

I cannot cite a truly 100 percent encyclopedic knowledge of the Elder Scrolls 'verse to say there is no such source - but honestly, given how much shoehorning this trope has historically attracted, I feel pretty safe in erring on the side of "no, it's just not an example"

edited 22nd Nov '17 12:55:16 AM by nrjxll