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Nightmare Fuel cleanup:

Cause this needs to get done, and a couple of people working on +10, 000 wicks just won't cut it.

What needs to be done:

Add finished pages to the sandbox page so we can keep track.

The courtesy links to Related To pages and namespaces:

edited 7th Feb '13 9:30:58 AM by Willbyr

 1 Ekuran, Sat, 28th Apr '12 6:18:38 AM from somewhere. Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Hi.
Cause this needs to get done, and a couple of people working on +10, 000 wicks just won't cut it.

What needs to be done:

Add finished pages to the sandbox page so we can keep track.

The courtesy links to Related To pages and namespaces:

edited 7th Feb '13 9:30:58 AM by Willbyr

[Insert seemingly profound or amusing phrase here.]
 2 Septimus Heap, Sat, 28th Apr '12 11:27:49 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Quasar
The courtesy links to Related To pages and namespaces:

The Trope Repair Shop thread decided that Accidental Nightmare Fuel will stay as an example- and wickless (other than indexes and trope descriptions) definition page and that High Octane Nightmare Fuel as well as Accidental Nightmare Fuel examples and links will be merged into Nightmare Fuel. This means that the wicks need to be changed and pages namespaced - keep in mind to redirect, not cutlist the original pages.

However, there is a big cleanup to do along the way: Nightmare Fuel cannot be linked outside of YMMV and NF tabs other than for In-Universe examples and trope descriptions, since everything else is basically injecting personal opinions into other things that don't need them. Also, the subpages need cleanup: Personal (including first-person) entries are to be zapped as per the Nightmare Fuel page, natter is to be removed and undetailed entries should be put on discussion pages.

 3 ccoa, Sat, 28th Apr '12 7:11:26 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
As an added note, if there is an especially large or popular Nightmare Fuel or Accidental Nightmare Fuel subpage that got zapped, you may PM me or ask here for the contents and/or to make it a redirect. Be warned, however, that abusing or overusing this offer may cause it to be revoked.

edited 28th Apr '12 7:15:39 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 4 nrjxll, Sat, 28th Apr '12 9:09:32 PM Relationship Status: Not war
So, to get this clear:

  • All wicks in YMMV and NF namespaced-pages, or within trope descriptions, or used for a in-universe example, are now supposed to go to Nightmare Fuel.
  • All wicks outside that set are being purged.

Correct?

edited 28th Apr '12 9:10:17 PM by nrjxll

 5 A Groupie, Sat, 28th Apr '12 9:24:15 PM from City of Angelic Devils
sick of it all
Working on cleaning up Real Life on Nightmare Fuel. Removing NSFW links, Natter, first person, and such. Also removing Cracked links, because I've seen complaints on those - though those can be restored if they're wanted.

Cleaned Accidents and BodyHorror.

Must Have Nicotine before working on the rest.

edited 28th Apr '12 10:01:40 PM by AGroupie

?
So, after we move a High Octane Nightmare Fuel page's contents into a normal Nightmare Fuel page, will the mods do anything about the top of the work's main article having two buttons that lead to the exact same page?

 7 lalalei 2001, Sat, 28th Apr '12 10:07:31 PM from At my computer. Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Cleaned up Pokemon Black and White.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel/PokemonBlackAndWhite
The Protomen enhanced my life.
I'm sure that, once all the wicks are moved, the HONF pages that have ten or less inbounds can be cutlisted. The ones that have more than ten, though, have to be made as redirects to the NightmareFuel/ pages.

edited 28th Apr '12 10:09:39 PM by movie007

 
 9 nrjxll, Sat, 28th Apr '12 10:09:37 PM Relationship Status: Not war
I'd still like confirmation on my summary from before - the original description is slightly confusing as to what's to be done with which wicks (say that five times fast), and since that's what I plan to work on, I'd really like to be sure here.

edited 28th Apr '12 10:09:50 PM by nrjxll

 10 lalalei 2001, Sat, 28th Apr '12 10:10:16 PM from At my computer. Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Fixed My Little Pony And Friends, The Protomen, and Mega Man.

edited 28th Apr '12 10:15:41 PM by lalalei2001

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Second banana
Aw, still have to rewrite the chair monster scene back in...
"Doorknobs: not actually that long a period of historical significance."
 12 lalalei 2001, Sat, 28th Apr '12 10:43:58 PM from At my computer. Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Can someone unlock Princess Tutu?
The Protomen enhanced my life.
I did my best on Resident Evil.

Satan and his staff
Cleaned up HighOctaneNightmareFuel.Doom (and moved some examples to the discussion page.)
 15 ccoa, Sun, 29th Apr '12 4:52:28 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
*All wicks in YMMV and NF namespaced-pages, or within trope descriptions, or used for a in-universe example, are now supposed to go to Nightmare Fuel.
  • All wicks outside that set are being purged.

Exactly. As an audience reaction, it shouldn't be wicked in example lists (on trope pages) or trope lists (on work pages).

Princess Tutu unlocked.

[up], [up][up] Don't forget to move them to the Nightmare Fuel namespace. If it's locked, I can unlock it for you. I'll do those two for you.

edited 29th Apr '12 4:56:48 AM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 16 Alex Sora 89, Sun, 29th Apr '12 5:18:01 AM from Piedmont, Italy
Myself, as drawn by me.
INCOMING!!!

Okay, sorry for the wall, but sometimes you just need some comic relief. Back on topic...

First things first: it's good to see there is a Wiki Headlines warning this time. It would have been better if the same happened for Accidental Nightmare Fuel, but, as people say, by now the damage's already been done.

Sorry for the rushed writing style, but I'm going out today in order to visit my grandparents. That said...

Two weeks ago, I PM'd Fast Eddie himself about an ambitious premise of mine: I outright asked him, "please de-lock a page and I'll clean it up myself. If needed, I'll do the cleanup for the entire NF namespace by myself, because if what happened was because 'nobody cared about it', this means it's also my fault, and I want to make amends for that".

His response was what to be expected from a Reasonable Authority Figure: "plate's full right now, ping me in about a week and we'll see what we can do".

Timeskip to last tuesday, when I sent him a PM explaining my "plan" in detail. To date, he still hasn't answered, but given all of his duties, I can understand him. Also, on a slightly unrelated note, following my editing suspension I've started warming up to the Permanent Red Link Club and - by extension - Naughty Tentacles joining it after reading The Second Google Incident. I suggest reading that to all the tropers who, like me, think of the site's changes as something awful when, in fact, it's actually a need of this wiki - regardless of the "risk" of approaching Wikipedia's "Serious Business" style.

After this introductory paragraph, given my aforementioned hurry, I'm posting here the PM I sent to Fast Eddie in order for all of you to consider the possibility of a less radical option than Example Sectionectomy, nicknamed in said PM as "Example Lobotomy". Have a good reading, everyone, and remember - feedback (either negative or positive) is greatly appreciated.

The PM to Fast Eddie, titled "The Nightmare Is Back"

PING! (It's been a week!)

Hi there! I've chatted with you a week ago about what to do with the Nightmare Fuel namespace, and you told me to "ping you in a week", and so I did.

First things first: I owe you a big hug for the Wayback Machine back when you suggested it to me. It took a while for me to get a hang of it, but once I did, boy, did that site ever do wonders for me. It should deserve an article. I might kick-start it as well.

About Nightmare Fuel, sorry. I know that asking you "could we put it back, pretty please?" straight away, as soon as I found out about the Example Sectionectomy could have been either hasty, pretentious, or both at once, so much, that asking this in Ask The Troper got me suspended for four days. That's why I'm apologising about doing it right now. For what it's worth, I'm not complaining about the site's changes anymore (gotta update my contributor's page about that pretty soon) after I've read about The Second Google Incident. Good thing I read that before whining, "where are my Naughty Tentacles?". And by that, I meant the article, not the tentacles themselves.

However, if my calculations are correct, de-redlinking any Nightmare Fuel tab would do the same for all of them: when I looked for a cached version of the Nightmare Fuel page for Pokémon, searching "Isn't Lavender Town a wonderful little place?" (the caption for that page image) resulted in said sentence popping out among Google's results despite that article's page history having apparently been wiped out. Now, I'm not a genius at how Wikis work, but my guess is that NF pages have simply been made unaccessible.

However, as for that idea of mine I had, well, I may write down here an example of how it works... a "sample", if you will. Sorry for this being essentially a YKTTW aimed directly at you, but I just wanted to share this plan with you, especially considering it might work.


"Example Lobotomy"

This is what happens when examples on a given page are too much of a mess, but in the meanwhile, Example Sectionectomy proves to be too much of a radical choice. The best thing to do would be a solution placed somewhere in the middle. In other words, if we have problematic "moments" pages (any given variant), or even nattery examples on this or that article, we should do a massive cleanup, but in a subtler way: namely, "sucking the excessive emotion out of examples", resulting in the examples simply being... facts, as they are.

That is, rewriting examples with the same writing style as Wikipedia. If done right, this method can save a lot of examples from getting sectionectized, in that the somber writing style of examples can also inspire newer edits in doing the same.

This doesn't mean spoiler tags can be removed: listing facts is one thing, listing spoileriffic facts without hiding them is another. Spoiler policy, with Example Lobotomy, is to be determined on a case-by-case basis.

The only kind of page exempt from this rule is Crowning Music of Awesome: removing the gushing from such examples detracts from their value, considering that while it's up to the reader to think if a Moment Of Awesome is awesome or not, the fact this is music we're talking about needs the reader to be aware of what's so "awesome" about it.

Example Lobotomy does not tolerate Zero Context Examples of any kind: unless they're backed up by some outside links, simply listing a trope or a name without providing the context will only result in said line being zapped.

Also, italics are restricted to works' titles only and do not apply to other text, no matter how much emphasis the former editors wanted to give on whatever they said.

Contrast Example Sectionectomy, where the examples just aren't salvageable even with this method.


Example of Example Lobotomy at work:

(excerpt of the Nightmare Fuel tab of Sonic the Hedgehog)

Original version: "So I was the only person unsettled by that horrifying cutscene of Perfect Chaos when he first spawns out of the skyscraper - IN REALISTIC 3D - and just roars at you? It's worse in the DX version, arguably, because this is a part of the cinematic that starts every time you play; complete with flashes of lava flows, close-ups of Perfect Chaos, inverted-colour images and lightning strikes. Needless to say, I was terrified as a kid. It still unsettles me now."

Lobotomised version: "Perfect Chaos, Final Boss of the first Sonic Adventure, in the cutscene where he first spawns out of the skyscraper, in realistic 3D and roars at the player. The DX version takes it further by having said scene as part of the game's opening cinematic, with the addition of lava flows, close-up of the creature, inverted-colour images and lightning strikes."


There, that's what I have in mind if we can save the NF namespace; and even if we can't, well, the Example Lobotomy still seems a good weapon against natter to me. Needless to say, if NF can be saved, I'm willing to do the whole cleanup thing by myself, article by article, as I told you one week ago. It will take a while, but if I can do a favor to the tropers, those missing old features and the more "serious" ones alike, if I can make the community happy, well, tell me what page I'll have to... eh, fix, and I'll do it.

I hope this whole Wall of Text didn't come off as either irritating, annoying or just plain unwanted. My intentions are for the best here, and it's been all in good faith.

See you, Ed.
I'm from Piedmont. No relation with Piedmon, mind you!
 17 ccoa, Sun, 29th Apr '12 5:54:23 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Alex, I would suggest you read this thread and the TRS thread that spawned it. As to to the headline, ANF did get one. It ran for a week.

NightmareFuel.Anime is done.

edited 29th Apr '12 5:54:36 AM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 18 Shaoken, Sun, 29th Apr '12 6:30:49 AM Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
Okay, just a quick question. Are we just cleaning up the HONF pages for transport later, or is there a way some of us handle that ourselves? I'll be cleaning up the Sandman assuming the former in that case (and I suppose we could lock that page if everyone is okay with it, since the series has been over for more than a decade, there's nothing new to add to it).

 19 ccoa, Sun, 29th Apr '12 6:41:21 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
You can move them yourself. See How to Move a Page for more information.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
So far I've transported the Nightmare Fuel examples of the Aladdin page to the High Octane Nightmare Fuel tab.

 21 ccoa, Sun, 29th Apr '12 9:22:08 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Um, that's the opposite of what you should do. The Nightmare Fuel tab is the one we're going to use going forward. HONF is going away.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 22 Evulzboy, Sun, 29th Apr '12 10:48:19 AM from North Philadelphia
Can we keep the Cracked links? But besides that, while we're cleaning up, can we change some of the images on the Nightmare Fuel subpages? Out with old, in with the new, eh?evil grin
You Are Not Alone...Until I Find You.
 23 Ekuran, Sun, 29th Apr '12 10:49:00 AM from somewhere. Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Hi.
Moved Aladdin to Aladdin.

edited 29th Apr '12 10:50:00 AM by Ekuran

[Insert seemingly profound or amusing phrase here.]
 24 Alex Sora 89, Sun, 29th Apr '12 11:21:10 AM from Piedmont, Italy
Myself, as drawn by me.
Oh, hey guys, I'm back. I came in through the hole in the wall I made earlier... didn't anyone fix that? Sorry about that.

Back on topic: I'd like to answer to ccoa first. I never got to see that headline, but if there ever was one, then either my attention span or - if I recall correctly - the rough-and-screwed-up week I was having is to blame. Sorry for that.

As far as I can tell, however, we're planning to use the Nightmare Fuel namespace, while limiting it to High Octane Nightmare Fuel examples? Seems weird to me, but it can work.

The only thing that puzzles me, though, is that pages devoted to HONF will ultimately include moments of Accidental Nightmare Fuel as well in the long run. Don't get me wrong, this isn't even supposed to sound like a bad thing, at least to me: a tab for spooky stuff - intentional and unintentional alike - sounds great for me, especially considering how the YMMV factor of Nightmare Fuel depends on how the intention to scare viewers is always debatable (unless Word of God is "yeah, I wanted you to crap your pants").

That said, the fact we currently have HONF tabs without their ANF counterparts is bound to leave newer generations of tropers with their heads scratching once you think about it: "wait, if this wiki is struggling so desperately for family friendliness, then why limiting their examples of scary stuff to the really scary ones while forbidding the mildly scary ones?". And while tropers know how to answer with just one word, natter, I don't see how that alone could suffice to justify this change when it comes to explaining how this wiki works to said newer generations (The Second Google Incident is always a better justification, if you ask me).

As for me, I honestly don't know what to suggest here. Sure, having the original Nightmare Fuel tab back is good news enough, but using it for only one of the two subtropes (namely, the "ditched" one, ANF, and the "safe" one, HONF) it has seems just weird. Sadly, Trope Decay is likely to kick in eventually, with hordes of examples of anything remotely scary thrown in for good measure. That alone wouldn't be too much of a problem by itself, but the risk of having a potential natter magnet is something the higher-ups should fear.

The first step I could suggest is either sticking to a given writing style (whether my "Example Lobotomy" is a good idea or not is up to you to decide) or slapping a "Oh, look, you've come here for creepy stuff but actually this page is meant for mindbending horror only" banner at the top of this page.

All of this, of course, provided I got things right (which often happens not to be the case as of late).
I'm from Piedmont. No relation with Piedmon, mind you!
Conanian and Hirokian
I have made a PM to Septimus Heap on the same issue, but I would write here to ask for opinion from tropers in general.

We are asked to clean up first persons tones in HONF pages, which is fine and all (and discussed a few months ago), but I don't know how do do that in the following case:

A troper adds an example of NF in an appropriate tone. Some other tropers added second-level indentation, talking about their personal experience on that scene.

Of course the example itself should be kept. But should we keep those "experience" second bullets at all? If yes, how should I re-write it?
Hirokian Incident (December 8 2002-): Escapist Character deconstructed 5 minutes after declared as such, plus a 3-year long From Bad to Worse.
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