Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

The entire point of Dethroning Moment of Suck is to vent, so it really isn't worth cleaning up bashing on those pages. The only entries that should be removed are ones that violate the rules or contain factual errors.

I don't know, wouldn't that count as importing drama from other sites since it's talking about the antics of other users? I'm pretty sure that's against the rules, even if it's on the Darth Wiki.

Yeah, that does sound like complaining about someone else's opinion in RL. Not really what we want.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Would anyone mind taking a look at the YMMV pages for the Avatar comics? A lot of the entries come across as overly-negative and complainy to me, especially in regards to the two characters Ursa and Mai.

Avatar: The Last Airbender - The Promise
Avatar: The Last Airbender - The Search
Avatar: The Last Airbender - The Rift
Avatar: The Last Airbender - Smoke and Shadow
Avatar: The Last Airbender – North and South

I've already brought some specific examples up in the Scrappy Clean-Up and the "Is this an example?" threads, but there are a lot more entries that could use a second opinion.

Edited by Primis on Aug 22nd 2018 at 10:47:25 AM

YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 3 E 4 One Bad Apple:

• Critical Research Failure: Despite what the episode constantly says, and while it is the first thing one should do, telling an adult is almost never the absolute solution to a bullying problem, especially in modern schools where victim-blaming and inaction is common.
• Internet Backdraft: The episode infamously ended with the moral of "standing up to a bully will make you a bully as well", effectively portraying the CMC as wrong for trying to defend themselves against Babs Seed. That Babs has effectively spent every waking moment actively hunting the CMC to ruin every second of their day, that the CMC did attempt other means to solve the issue which all failed, that the Crusaders' reasoning for not telling an Adult is fear that it will make the bullying worse (a very valid concern, as it's often the case in real life), and that Babs actually threatened to hurt them if they told an adult, are never given any thought. This episode came under tons of fire with the fanbase, ESPECIALLY fans who were victims of bullying themselves and/or parents whose children are bullying victims. It's heavily implied that this is also the reason why Babs barely appeared in the later episodes aside from brief cameos and mentions here and there.

Critical Research Failure is errors that even non-experts or those without personal experience can see, not sure if this is the case. Internet Backdraft is about immediate reactionary response and to my knowledge it only became controversial upon analysis and hindsight, and how/where is it implied to be the reason for her absence? The point these entires are trying to make is covered by other tropes on this page. Cut?

The Critical Research Failure entry should be removed for misuse and the Internet Backdraft entry should be cut down at the very least.

YMMV.Total Drama Rama:

• They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: An installment of the TD franchise that breaks away from it's reality show roots actually isn't a bad idea in theory if done right considering how stale that aspect of the series has gotten after nearly a decade. Though for this kind of show, the ideal way to do that should've been something akin to 6teen and not... This.

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They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot is for when certain plot points within a work aren't given enough focus. So that entry is misuse.

I just found Horrible.Musicians, which was created fairly recently, Mar. 23rd, 2018. I believe Horrible Voice Actors was cut because it crossed to complaining about people and lacked the objectivity of other Horribles (this one lacks citations like others). What to do?

Upon investigation, I noticed it was part of a split, as Horrible.Music was separated into several pages. That may explain why it would be newer. It could use a skim through, maybe reiterate the criteria listed on the main Music page for each subpage in some way, hidden or otherwise.

Edited by Berrenta on Aug 31st 2018 at 12:31:29 PM

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

Found these on YMMV.Mega Man and given the series' resurgence I don't know if they apply anymore.

• Internet Backdraft: Ever since the string of cancellations and Keiji Inafune's departure from Capcom in 2011, the fanbase has been carrying on like a spurned lover. Despite a handful of attempts to acknowledge the franchise in the years since, everything Capcom does or produces that isn't a full platformer or action RPG is met with derision or vitriol from some sector. This was mitigated when Inafune falled from grace with his bad decisionbs surrounding Red Ash and Mighty No. 9
  • The only hint of anything even acknowledging the Blue Bomber's 30th anniversary were ports of the classic NES games to mobile devices... which, upon release, proved to be total garbage. While almost nobody was surprised considering that the last attempt to port a Mega Man game to mobile was just as spectacular of a failure, the ports were a smashing success at killing the last bit of hope the fandom had that the franchise would have any kind of serious future.

• Never Live It Down: After the incidents detailed under Internet Backdraft above, some detractors outside of the fanbase are considering it a bunch of complainers that never stop wanting sequels and should be thankful for the back catalog of existing Mega Man games.

EDIT: Similarly, saw this on YMMV.Re Zero and don't think it qualifies as an example, but instead seems to be Complaining About People Not Liking the Show.

"Never Live It Down:

Many viewers do not understand that most of the "stupidity" scenes of Subaru and his incredibly stupid acts that doom him and his friends to death and suffering were in fact intentional, that show how cruel is the "other world" for the average person and to give Subaru the reason and motivation for emotional and physical development. Moreover, the illogicality of his actions in the anime, almost averted in the novel and manga, where the majority of his actions are only an extremely quick-tempered reaction to quite specific stimuli, and not idiocy without a reason. And this is not to mention how close to Reality Is Unrealistic can be the hatred of people to him.

As mentioned above, many fans think Emilia is too flat, boring and poorly written generic Love Interest, which was inserted into the series only as Living MacGuffin. At the same time, this misconception arose due to the fact that the anime adaptation ends before of "her story" arc and many anime viewers just did not watch this moment.

Emilia and Rem as Love Interests were conceived as both traditional and realistic ways to develop a romantic line, so Subaru's love for Emilia is perceived as a common Love at First Sight and inspiring him to seek the Lady and Knight dynamic while learning to take things slowly for Emilia's sake, while Rem was supposed to be a representation of the Defrosting Ice Queen Love Interest who falls for the main character via Rescue Romance and who develops relations with him more gradually in the original status of True Companions. Most of the fans of both girls forget about this, scolding Subaru for illogical actions in a romantic way. At the same time, it is by studying these paths and by colliding them that the author tries to deconstruct the traditional romantic Cliché Storm in similar works."

Edited by lalalei2001 on Sep 1st 2018 at 4:20:44 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.

Since the MM's Never Live It Down entry focused on the fanbase and not characters, I can say that's a shoehorned example...

As for the Re:Zero one, holy moly. Not sure where to start.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

Question about Villain Ball Villain Decay. They're on the the Bad Writing Index, but what if they are given in-universe reasons (Villain Ball stemming from an established Fatal Flaw, Villain Decay due to Sanity Slippage)? Are they not those tropes in this case? Or are such justified reasons so rare they're still considered worth putting on the Bad Writing Index? (I ask because Jerkass Ball isn't listed on the index despite often being used as a complaint, but several times it's justified by in-universe circumstance.)

YMMV.Tangled The Series seems to have become nothing but complaining.

"* Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: A downplayed example so far, but some feel that the last few season 1 episodes (specifically starting in Queen For A Day) , fill this trope due to how the grim dark factor is cranked up so much that the characters are almost guaranteed to have the rug pulled from under them. Even when there's a type of happy ending, there's still a dark, lingering feeling that's hard to shake off."

"*** Many of the locations visited so far are downright bizarre , from a cottage that has a couple who uses magic to turn people into birds, to an island society of strange creatures, and water beasts, to name a few. The excuse is that this is because no one knows what the outer area of Corona is like, which some believe, and some don't, feeling it's trying too hard to act weird like some other shows , especially compared to how grounded in reality the season started out. The contrast with the original movie is especially jarring, as the former treated magic as exceptional rarity and made the setting seem even more realistic."

"** King Frederic unfortunately fell into this towards the season finale. The show tries to make us feel sorry for him when his relationship with Rapunzel begins to fall apart, and how his various actions over the course of the series as a case of I Did What I Had to Do. However, people saw the ramifications of his actions as Laser-Guided Karma for his stubborn refusal to acknowledge the existence of the black rocks, which ends up putting his own innocent subjects in danger. He repeatedly tries to control Rapunzel, keeps secrets from her and his wife and eventually resorts to actual abuse when he has Rapunzel locked away. His actions make him very much like Gothel. And because of the rushed season finale, many fans felt that Frederic's actions were not called out nearly enough."

"** A frequent complaint for the show's pilot movie was King Frederic's demeanor seemed too strict and overbearing, no matter how justified it might be from his point of view. The first episode of the show has Frederic openly admitting to his wife that he acted out of line and feels guilty about it. As a result, the rest of the show has him loosening up and frequently showing that he's Not So Above It All. Of course, the show ended up undoing this with later plot twists involving his character, as seen below."

"** Adira, the mysterious figure from the season 1 finale, is also a bit divisive. There are those who think she's a Mary Sue with no real character flaws, while others think she's a compelling action girl with funny moments, and like the fact that she's the only one who can cut through the mystical black rocks with her special sword. "

The Protomen enhanced my life.

Remove the Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy example since Audience Reactions can't be downplayed or played with in any way

I found this edit made to Gundam Build Divers. Upon closer analysis, I feel like this might be an attempt at concealing some Complaining About People Not Liking the Show, since it specifically targets a very specific section of the fandom (namely the western Gundam audience who also uses Reddit and knows about /r/Gundam), and the language, to me at least, looks like it's trying to undermine the subreddit's criticisms of the show. Quoted text is as follows:

---

• Americans Hate Tingle:
  • [...]
  • The series itself is heavily scorned by Western fans. As mentioned above, Gundam fans in the West are older than the intended viewers of the series, thus they hold a much higher standard over it. Thus, it is not uncommon for fan sites like Reddit's "r/Gundam" subreddit to tear the series to shreds and accuse the cast and crew of holding the Idiot Ball for things that should have been solved in five seconds in their eyes.

---

Is this negativity/Complaining About People Not Liking the Show disguised as a normal entry or not? It should be noted that from what I've seen, Build Divers currently has a very negative reputation outside of some circles, so if it does qualify, then it's trying to pin the blame for all of that on one specific group.

Edited by TrocyteV on Sep 5th 2018 at 10:11:52 AM

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"

Is this kosher?

From Trivia.Mr Men:

• The Wiki Rule: Mr. Men Wiki. We can't provide a link for this one because not only is it extremely messed up in many areas (improper grammar, frequent misspellings), but some portions of the character pages were even dedicated to "counterparts" (picking popular characters from other franchises stating they have the personalities of said character). Even worse, these can extend to unnecessary pieces of media like Go Animate! Seriously, you could search up ANY character you knew from ANY franchise ever, and it was guaranteed to be on one of those counterpart lists. Thank LORD someone moved the counterparts to another wiki.

Nope. Torch it.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢

Delete it for just being a complaint about the wiki.

Yep, deserves an axe. Just applied it.

It was also one of those pages with the bugged locks, so that's fixed in the process.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

Found this on YMMV.The Mist, for the 2007 movie:

This seems more like complaining that the characters aren't Genre Savvy than any sort of real problems with the movie.

For instance, I don't think anyone being swarmed by monsters would immediately think that, 'since the monsters vaguely look like bugs, then they must behave like bugs, too.' They'd probably be a little distracted by the fact that they're, you know, being swarmed by monsters.

Still need an opinion on #1191.

Forgot to mention that their Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry will need some minor polish if the Americans Hate Tingle sub-entry is declared as opinion-bashing, since while the former can function without the latter, it's still being hoisted up by an entry which may or may not be targeting /r/Gundam.

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"

I cleaned up some YMMV sinkholes and complaining on Webcomic.Vegan Artbook, but there quite a few examples I'm not sure if we should delete. Here are some of them:

• The part of the Jerkass example that says "However, despite how the author tries to depict them as the opposite, all of the vegan characters come off as an unintentional example of this trope." (The vegans are already listed as Unintentionally Unsympathetic Designated Heroes on the YMMV page.) There are quite a few examples similar to this one.
• Most Hypocrite examples are complaining about the main characters, who are not portrayed as hypocrites in-universe. Should we delete them, or can they be moved to Broken Aesop?
• Most of the Insane Troll Logic examples bash the author's views (which are portrayed as right... isn't ITL supposed to be about intentionally horrible logic, or at least logic that's portrayed as really bad?). Ditto for the I Reject Your Reality examples.

I haven't seen the movie, but:

• The first example has a "to be fair" which seems to be arguing against itself.
• I agree with you about the second example. That's not an immediately obvious connection that anyone should be able to make.
• The last point also argues against itself by having a (poorly indented) counter-argument that sounds perfectly valid.

I've mentioned before that I lean more towards cutting the whole page since it's almost entirely dedicated to bashing the comic and its author; if we have nothing good to say about it we may as well not say anything. But you're right that Hypocrite should be about characters intentionally portrayed as hypocrites In-Universe, Jerkass about intentionally unpleasant characters, and Insane Troll Logic about intentionally incomprehensible arguments, so at least these ones should be removed or trimmed down to remove the negativity.

I had to cut all the Insane Troll Logic and Hypocrite examples because none of them were intentional/in-universe. With that said, the page still has a bunch of questionably objective entries I spared because I wasn't 100% sure that they should be cut. I can definitely see why you're leaning towards cutting it, but I think we should try to salvage it first. Even if we get rid of everything I considered cutting, there'll still be enough objective tropes left to warrant keeping the page.