Unclear Definition (new crowner 9/18): Planet Eris

What Eris does this refer to? I can't figure it out even after reading the description.

ETA: Turns out there is a real Planet Eris, but it has nothing with the discord suggested by the Planet Eris name. That alone is reason to rename IMO.

edited 16th Mar '12 9:37:49 PM by Twentington

Oh, thank Christ, I forgot to do this crowner.

Isn't this basically The Same But More of Fantasy Kitchen Sink?

"This trope is named after Eris, the goddess of Chaos in Principia Discordia, the prime text of the Discordian religion. Also relates to the original Ancient Greek mythology version of Eris as the goddess of discord, strife and quarrels. Look up the The Iliad (especially the Judgement of Paris scene) for one of her most famous roles therein, you know the Original Snub and 'For the Fairest' and the Golden Apple Corps. Not to be confused with Eros, god of sexual love and beauty, or Ares, god of war, or Chaos/Khaos/χάος, who was the void before the creation of gods and earth. Yeah, Greek Myth was involved. Suffice to say Eris is the embodiment of the modern term chaos, discord and the fun stuff."

The fact that the biggest paragraph in the description is just for explaining the name kind of proves your point.

edit: also, "What Eris does this refer to? I can't figure it out even after reading the description." Is that so?

edited 16th Mar '12 10:27:39 PM by abk0100

Not even that - the only thing that ties into it is Chaos, and I think we can go for a better name than "Planet Chaos".

@Pacific: Yeah, I think this trope could stand to be rewritten to clarify how it differs from Fantasy Kitchen Sink. As I see it, the differences are:

• Fantasy Kitchen Sink: Fantastic beings from a number of different traditions coexist in the setting. Their presence in the story is, to some extent, planned from the start by the author, and there's some sort of explanation for why they all exist. Otherwise, the setting itself may be as much like or unlike modern Real Life Earth as the author pleases.
• Planet Eris: The story ostensibly takes place in modern Earth, but is spiced up with any number of speculative fiction creatures and tropes. Explanations for why these elements coexist will basically boil down to Rule of Funny or Rule of Cool. Usually, they're introduced haphazardly and demonstrate that the author is making stuff up as they go.

I always thought Planet Eris included Schizo Tech, Science Fiction Versus Fantasy (which also needs a rename), and other anachronism/Genre-Busting tropes.

Please provide an actual reason to rename, rather than "I couldn't figure out what it means." Didn't we have a whole big thing about rules for starting a TRS thread recently?

And I could swear we've had this put up for TRS before.

It's TRS - "not knowing what it means" is a valid way of renaming :V

Problem is, it's one of the more problematically named tropes. We could do a check to see if anyone here understood the title.

The new policy is that we don't rename something without solid reasons being provided in the OP. That said, the description seems to be in need of improvement and that doesn't need that much of evidence.

I suspect this is one where the OP wanted several tags but picked the first. But we'll have to wait for that clarity.

The trope seems fine to me, but I hate this name. "Strife" is not the same as "chaos", and the definition takes for granted that the Discordian religion is better-known than Greek mythology (which may well be true, but it's still confusing to those more familiar with the latter). I'd support a rename.

These looks like healthy stats. Can someone make a wick check or write a cleaner description?

Didn't do an exact wick check, but most seem to be correct or Zero Context Examples.

Personally I got the name immediately, but I'm also a bit familiar with Discordian religion.

edited 17th Mar '12 3:29:42 AM by Feather7603

Wick check (30)

Looks fine (10)

• Manic Pixie Dream Girl
• Sluggy Freelance
• Mundanger
• Mystery Science Theatre 3000
• The FAN
• Gear Saints
• CCC
• Dancing Pants
• Ben Ten
• Danger Five

Looks misused (11)

• Malazan Book Of The Fallen
• Metalocalypse
• minus.: Reality Warper
• Ninja High School
• Onmyodo: Terrible Fantasy Kitchen Sink misuse.
• Mega Ten: In no way. It's a Fantasy Kitchen Sink all the way.
• Human Aliens
• El Goonish Shive: Disregarding the laws of physics is not this trope.
• John Dies At The End: Doesn't look like comedic use
• Las Paridas De La Guarida: Crossover
• David Gonterman

No context (8)

• Nukees
• Scary Go Round
• The Young Ones
• Dragon Fable
• Hunter The Vigil
• Demon Planet
• Bob And George
• Bloody Urban

Unsure (1)

• Cold Sleep, Cold Future

Not really liking what I'm seeing, but I don't think the name is at fault. This trope has an unclear description, and too little distinction from Fantasy Kitchen Sink.

Along with Fantasy Kitchen Sink, there's also Monster Mash to consider when examining this trope.

edited 17th Mar '12 5:02:40 AM by lu127

Yes, indeed, my problem was that more than one tag fits here. The description is in need of cleanup as well since I can't tell it apart from other tropes.

Also, there is a real Planet Eris, and the Eris that names the trope has nothing to do with planets, so the name is only all the more obfuscated. Is "completely opaque name that is also the name of something in real life that is totally unrelated" not reason enough to name?

No, because if it has healthy usage stats, it's not likely "opaque".

That's strange. I've seen tropes with far more wicks and no demonstrable misuse renamed because they allegedly had unhealthy use stats.

If nothing else, the description needs to be cleaned up.

On the definition front, what distinguishes this from Fantasy Kitchen Sink is the Mundane Fantastic aspect of it. All these crazy things thrown into the setting coexist with the ordinary "real-world" elements.

Not quite. There is nothing that says Fantasy Kitchen Sink cannot have ordinary real-life mundane things along with all the crazies. Mahou Sensei Negima, Mega Ten and Final Fantasy are prime examples.

I changed the thread title to 'Unclear Definition.' That needs to be taken care of before we do anything else.

So, let's see... My interpretations:

• All Myths Are True: This is about all in-universe myths being true. It has nothing to do with the other tropes. However, Fantasy Kitchen Sink starts by describing itself like All Myths Are True but Up To Eleven, which is false. The exception is any setting that are Like Reality, Unless Noted, we do have all real life myths in-universe as well.
• Fantasy Kitchen Sink: This is where all real world myths are true, no matter how they're perceived in-universe.
• Monster Mash: This essentially Fantasy Kitchen Sink, but with monsters, and also includes pop culture monsters, which Fantasy Kitchen Sink doesn't.
• Planet Eris: This is All Fiction Is True. That includes Fantasy Kitchen Sink, Monster Mash, and all combinations. Despite and aside from this, the world is just like our own.

I would also like to say that the descriptions of most of these tropes are all over the place.

edited 17th Mar '12 2:39:21 PM by Feather7603

I'm sorry, but those definitions really aren't very accurate. I agree that the descriptions don't help. Monster Mash is probably defined too broadly.

EDITED: Sorry again. Okay, they're not that off. I misread your definition of Fantasy Kitchen Sink because of the comparison to All Myths Are True. But Planet Eris isn't really All Fiction Is True; it's more about the weirdness/normalcy interaction.

edited 17th Mar '12 3:05:23 PM by Treblain

Aside (the actual discussion has moved beyond this): "It's TRS - 'not knowing what it means' is a valid way of renaming"

Incorrect. "If you think a name is unclear please be prepared to make substantial arguments and provide substantial evidence that the name is really unclear to actual readers, and that this lack of clarity exists outside your imagination."

edited 17th Mar '12 2:30:51 PM by rodneyAnonymous

The difference between All Myths Are True and Fantasy Kitchen Sink seems to be accurately described in.

However, my idea if Planet Eris is that it's a Fantasy Kitchen Sink that treats all that stuff as completely normal

Monster Mash seems to be a Fantasy Kitchen Sink or All Myths Are True for monsters only.

edited 17th Mar '12 2:31:27 PM by SeptimusHeap

I disagree.

Yeah, that part of Planet Eris being treated as normal was one thing I just thought I wrote but didn't.

edited 17th Mar '12 2:37:52 PM by Feather7603