This is the sticky thread for questions related to the namespacing of works. As in, "which is the right namespace for this work?"
Ideally, questions already answered are covered on the Namespace Map. If you know a namespacing issue has already been resolved, but it is not yet documented on the Map, please update the Map.
If you want to suggest a new namespace, don't post here, but in Suggesting New Namespaces
instead.
For easier reference, I've numbered my questions:
- #1: Where do animated films go? They seem to be distributed rather inconsistenly over Film/ (Puss In Boots, Whats Opera Doc), WesternAnimation/ (Disneys Anne Frank, Snow White), Anime/ (Princess Mononoke) and Disney/ (Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs, Der Fuehrers Face).
- #2: There are a few songs which have their own pages ("Pirate Jenny"). Where do they go – to Music/ or to Literature/ ?
- #3: Where do composers go – to Music/ , or are they to be treated like other creators, which hitherto stay on Main/ ?
- #4: Where do Talk Shows, Game Shows and News Broadcasts go? I guess you could call these formats Live-Action TV but they're not really "TV series", as in Series/.
- #5: Am I right in assuming that Puppet Shows go to Series/ ?
- #6: What about “hybrid shows”, i.e. segment shows that incorporate both live action and animation? (e.g. Die Sendung Mit Der Maus)
- #7: Where to put picture books? I am thinking of books like Der Struwwelpeter and Max and Moritz — books that are really not complete without their illustrations. They are not (yet) ComicBook/s, but to sort them under Literature/ feels a little unsatisfactory too.
- #8: The rule is to put works into the namespace of their original medium. However, once in a while there is a work which is little known in its original medium, and almost exclusively known by its adaptation. I’m thinking of Das Boot, for example: there's a novel, but it is almost exclusively known by the Petersen movie.
- #9: Should One Book Authors who are invariably tied to a single work be treated as a creator or a work page rather?— Currently, we have Samuel Pepys and Herodotus, but shouldn't these pages be at Literature/The Diary of Samuel Pepys and Literature/The Histories rather?
- #10: There are cases where I’m unsure whether to use the English or the original title. Is there are hard rule that determines whether Der Ring Des Nibelungen goes to Theatre/Der Ring des Nibelungen or Theatre/The Ring of the Nibelung? Even Wikipedia uses the original title.
I'd be grateful for input.
Edited by SeptimusHeap on Nov 9th 2023 at 8:15:08 PM
As for the The Apathetic, I have no idea, as mentioned on the discussion page. It seems to exist only on TV Tropes given the absolute absence of evidence that it exists elsewhere, so maybe it should go on Darth Wiki.
Also, YouTube Recommendations needs an index and namespace. It's conceptually related to Fanfic Recommendations but for videos on YouTube.
edited 17th Aug '14 8:49:54 AM by SeptimusHeap
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fantasy writer turned Filmmaker.
What namespace do we put Twitter accounts on? Namely parody accounts, but others as well. I imagine it falls under Blog, but not sure.
Thinking of writing up a page for @WorstMuse, but then I stumbled on this question.
Blog/ is probably the closest thing, structurally.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Where should The Sphinx and Statue Of Liberty go?
We don't have a namespace for it yet (other than Useful Notes); I don't think statues and sculptures are well troped, here.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Don't we have an "Art/"? Paintings are pretty poorly troped as well; it's harder to tell a story in a single-frame, static visual medium. I don't think either are really stories as much they are a part of stories. In that sense, Useful Notes is where we put elements like that.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
But these are works and they have tropes. Having them in Useful Notes also means that examples can't be crosswicked properly.
Haven't seen any real arguments against the Art/ namespace. Being difficult to trope doesn't change the fact that these have more than three examples and they have to go somewhere.
Edit: Was bold and moved The Sphinx to The Sphinx. Cutlisted Main.The Sphinx and requested it to be removed from Useful Notes Pages In Main. Let's see what happens...
edited 26th Aug '14 10:50:37 AM by m8e
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
But Art.The Sphinx doesn't list any tropes about the work. The troper list is like the trope list for UsefulNotes.Abraham Lincoln: tropes used in fiction related to the work.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
I do see a trope list. Most is speculation and ZCE though.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Abe has a trope list, too: that doesn't make Abe a work.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
The Sphinx is a work, though. That is the important difference, not the presence or no of a tropelist.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
So.... if a work ("work B") uses a trope while referencing Lupin III, I should put the trope of "work B" on Franchise.Lupin III? That doesn't make sense.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Examples about the work itself:
- Ambiguous Gender: One of its many riddles: Is the head a man's or a woman's? Looks kind of manly, but it's missing the intricately coiffed beard that ancient Egyptian men sported.
- Bits of an alleged beard have been found, but given the lack of damage to the chin, it's likely that it was added on later and then fell off.
- And Man Grew Proud: The civilization that built it is long gone. It may still be around after ours is gone, as well.
- Cats Are Mean: Subverted, felines were considered sacred in ancient Egypt.
- Mix-and-Match Critters: It's a sphinx. A lion's body and a human head.
- Monumental Damage: The statue is missing its nose, believed to have been an act of religious vandalism long ago.
- Nice Hat: The sphinx wears a Nemes, a headdrees worn by the pharaohs.
- Older Than Dirt: It was built in approximately 2500 BC.
- Seven Wonders Of The World: By extension from the great pyramid and the rest of the Giza Necropolis.
edited 26th Aug '14 2:14:06 PM by m8e
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
- Ambiguous Gender: That's an Audience Reaction due to centuries of changing gender indications and the erosion of wind/water have changed the work.
- Also has a Justifying Edit and bad Example Indentation: Repair Dont Respond!
- And Man Grew Proud: The Sphinx was not made to represent a myth within the story of the collapse of civilization before Egypt. That's what the trope means.
- Cats Are Mean: Not A Subversion. Please read the warning on the trope page.
- Mix-and-Match Critters: Added 26th Aug '14 1:59:21 PM, by m8e. THAT belongs on Art.The Sphinx, but it wasn't there when I opened the tab, which I used to make the comment.
- Monumental Damage: I'm almost on the fence here, but what sells me is it happened after the work. If the top half of the Mona Lisa was ripped off, that doesn't make her The Faceless.
- Nice Hat: nice try, but "a hat" is not the definition of Nice Hat.
- Older Than Dirt: again, added 26th Aug '14 2:07:45 PM by m8e.
- UsefulNotes.Seven Wonders Of The World: not a trope.
Again, I said it could have tropes, just that it is more difficult to collect them. Most of the tropes still aren't about the work itself.
edited 26th Aug '14 5:25:42 PM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Yes i'm still working on the page so what?
- Ambiguous Gender: It's ambiguous due to passage of time, and the equivalent of missing pages. Gender can become ambiguous for other reasons to, like translation a work, or words changing meaning and idiom/referenses getting lost. I see no problem with this.
- Ancient Egypt: Added context to this one.
- Bigger Is Better: added example.
- Mix-and-Match Critters: we agree on this one so...
- Monumental Damage: After the work? It's still standing there and is still "working". (sorry
) Yes the Mona Lisa wouldn't be The Faceless, but that's due to other reasons. That's a painting so the Mona Lisa as a character exist inside the painting, she has her own universe, and stuff that happened to the Mona Lisa is outside its universe. The Sphinx have no such framing(pun...). Its simply a big monolith statue that exist in real life.
- Nice Hat: Did you miss what type of hat it was and what kind of people was wearing it?
- Older Than Dirt: We seem to agree on this example too.
Well, there is clearly three or more good examples. It having bad examples too doesn't change that, it just mean that it have to be cleaned up a bit.(I have already moved the YMMV and Trivia bits.)
Are you arguing against this specific page or the need for an Art/ namespace? The agument I'm seeing is "pretty poorly troped" and "difficult" which I don't see as valid argumens against either.
edited 26th Aug '14 10:17:16 PM by m8e
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
My argument is that the trope list was about a Historical Domain Character, which is separate from the work itself. HDC belong in Useful Notes.
edited 27th Aug '14 6:43:02 AM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
We have as-is a Script namespace that isn't currently approved, with pages like May Xnocens and Derek The Rock Star (which is a work by our friend Nate Spidgewood, anyhow). Some of them may be better off in Literature/; opinions?
Maybe tropes about the Sphinx as if it were a historical domain character should be listed on the works they came from as a Shout-Out?
I think it would have to be about this specific sphinx, or a fictionalizes version of it. So for example the Incredible Hulk example could be turned into an example of Shout-Out, on the Incredible Hulk page.
edited 2nd Sep '14 9:30:40 AM by m8e
^ I agree, but I feel the "tropes" about the sphinx-as-a-historical-domain-figure that are not specific can just be cut, they are a great deal like the "general" examples on trope pages to me.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
If the work they come from can be cited, there's the The Sphinx (Referenced By) page/trope. But the tropes used by the work with their version of the Sphinx isn't a part of the The Sphinx (Art) page/work.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Bakacast, is this a JFF page or a work page?
Also, Top One Hundred Comic Book Villains seems like it fits an Useful Notes page. Timeline Of The Marvel Universe seems like it would fit Timeline/; opinions?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
(she/her)
Where would Dasaria go?
Macron's notes
That seems like a roleplay to me, which we put in Roleplay/.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Still wondering what to do about The Apathetic. There are no outbound links, it doesn't say what kind of work it is (I assume a novel of some form, likely once online) and trying to search the work on Google didn't turn up a helpful result to confirm its existence (searching a character name can either be too common or only link to the work page itself). Also, not categorized or wicked (maybe a Darth Unpublished Work?). What should be done about work pages like this?
As for the Academy Awards Ceremonies, given it's just a brief description with tropes attached, with only the Awards index linking to it when we already have a well-established page on the Academy Awards, I'm not really sure it really warrants its own page.
edited 14th Aug '14 6:06:31 PM by EarlOfSandvich
I now go by Graf von Tirol.