General Page Quote Discussion:

Agreed.

Oh, also the same person posted a second quote on Third Person Person. Someone else cut the original quote, but I think the original quote is a much better example because it includes not just an example of the trope in action, but a description of it.

It was changed twice. Here's the original:

->"Oh, no, Johnny Steps is losing! And that's me!"

—>— Johnny Steps, Yu-Gi-Oh! The Abridged Series

I think we should put it back. Or the Poriot one, the current is a clear case of Fan Myopia.

Edit:You are right, Herc for me then.

edited 9th Oct '15 9:07:44 AM by DeisTheAlcano

I clearly didn't look that far back.

Yeah, definitely between Johnny Steps and Herc. Probably Johnny, but they're both quite good. Johnny's is just a bit more concise.

EDIT: Actually, I take it back. Johnny Steps has a moment where he uses first person, so I lean towards Herc. Both still good, though.

edited 9th Oct '15 9:05:21 AM by Larkmarn

The quote in Creative Sterility is the same as Armor-Piercing Question. I love how it ilustrates the trope in the later so i think we should change the one in Creative Sterility. Any ideas?

I'd disagree, because 1) there aren't very many good other quotes I can find for Creative Sterility, and 2) a quote that ends with the question doesn't really demonstrate the piercing aspect, since we can't see the effect. So changing Armor-Piercing Question is preferable.

Length is a bit of a problem with a lot of cases on the Armor-Piercing Question quote page though. I'd say the Transformers: Revenge of The Fallen quote might the best if we want to avoid something that's to the point and doesn't leave out much in the way of context.

I see what you mean and, in that regard, the Transformers quote would work better, yes.

So, am I able to put the Herc quote back in Third-Person Person?

I don't see why not.

Just want to say I really like the new quote for The Kingslayer.

By the way, I came across a complaint in the Ask The Tropers page about a quote I changed. I think Fighteer replied to it. I would like to know what mistake it was so I don't repeat it?

Basically, we aren't to change things unilaterally. If you think a page quote is bad, bring it up here and discuss the change, and don't go ahead and change it without consensus.

Okay, I won't do that again, but which page quote was this? Was it The Kingslayer one?

edited 12th Oct '15 8:43:06 PM by JulianLapostat

I believe that was what the ATT discussion was complaining about. Unless you've made changes on other pages as well?

Well in terms of quotes, probably not.

@Adept, could you reply to this post, please?

I don't really believe that the voluntary/involuntary aspect is the main distinction between the tropes.

In my opinion, Cornered Rattlesnake is talking about a character or faction being able to fight back more effectively when they are under pressure. Hence, the Sun Tzu quote, "Put the army in the face of death where there is no escape and they will not flee or be afraid - there is nothing they cannot achieve." is more suitable for it.

Meanwhile, Burning the Ships seems to be an action done by a leader to ensure that the subordinates are committed to the quest, and will not be pulling Screw This, I'm Outta Here.

Burning the Ships is not always done by the ruler, I added a Real Life example at the bottom of the page where it was done by a group to commit themselves fully to a cause or a movement. The quote there(bottom of the page, not top) is essentially about a bunch of people manning up. In another context, it can fit a quote:

->Beyond a certain point, no return is possible. That is the point that is to be reached. —>—Franz Kafka

Like in the American Revolution, the Declaration of Independence is that moment, where they are basically deciding to go for full independence rather than half-protest: "Hang together or hang separately". It's more a point of non-compromise of goals rather than anything else.

edited 13th Oct '15 10:06:51 PM by JulianLapostat

That isn't really my argument there. I didn't say that Burning the Ships must be done by a ruler, but I'm simply differentiating it from Cornered Rattlesnake based on the intent and outcome of the action.

The former is done to ensure commitment to a certain mission/cause, or even simply to prevent people from backing out at the last minute, and does not require the faction to actually be facing an opponent.

The latter is done to provoke a counterattack, and does require the "rattlesnake" to be actively fighting an opposing force.

edited 14th Oct '15 11:45:28 PM by Adept

To Adept

I did make one other Quote change, unilaterally, that was before the Kingslayer one.

I'll bring this up here in case there's disagreement and if you want I'll change it back to the original.

It's the page quote for End of an Era: Originally it was this

—>"The contrast between what preceded the funeral car and that which followed it was striking indeed. Before it went old Japan: after it came new Japan. New Japan quickly separated to the left and right and seated itself in the pavilions on either side. But old Japan had passed by and disappeared and we could only hear now and again the distant wail of the reed pipes. After that the long rites began." —>— The New York Times, "The Funeral Ceremonies of Meiji Tenno"

I changed that to this:

—>"An era may be said to end when its basic illusions are exhausted." —>— Arthur Miller

My reasons for changing is that the second quote is shorter, more poetic, yet also specific about what "ends" an era. Since in most cases there are continuities between historical events and while people use the phrase "Year Zero" on many occassions as time passes you see continuities. Like in the case of the Meiji Restoration historians these days don't see it as such a huge break from the past and they see continuities between the pre-Meiji-Meiji and post-Meiji era, and I don't think the illusions of the Japanese Empire exhausted with his death, as much as the surrender and Hirohito's address did.

edited 14th Oct '15 12:14:37 AM by JulianLapostat

And I added this quote for Hollywood History, it didn't have one before:

-> "There is a popular belief that where history is concerned, Hollywood always gets it wrong - and sometimes it does. What is overlooked is the astonishing amount of history Hollywood has got right, and the immense, unacknowledged debt we owe to the commercial cinema as an illuminator of the story of mankind." —>— George MacDonald Fraser, The Hollywood History of the World.

Naked Lunch has two quotes. I prefer the second, as I don't think the first really works without the pothole.

Well I think both quotes have issues. The second one is a little overexposed but then if it is the actual tagline then nothing against it.

Let the tagline stay.

I don't like the quote you swapped on End of an Era. It puts too much emphasis on why the era ended then on the fact that the era has ended, which is the point of the trope and is something the current quote does well.

If the current quote is viewed as too long and needs to be changed, the Godzilla quote on the quotes page would work a lot better I think.

->I don't know if it's the end of something or the beginning of something. It feels like a metamorphosis, from one chapter to another, and I don't know whether to be sad or excited. I don't know if it’s the end of this great period of time or is it the beginning of a career. —>— Gareth Edwards on Godzilla after Godzilla (2014)

And please wait for at least one person (preferably more) to respond to your posts before going in and changing things...

edited 14th Oct '15 8:29:26 AM by ObsidianFire

I like that.

Seems good.