Work-Specific Title, Makes No Sense Otherwise (Crowner change 9/3): Chance The Gardener

The discussion title really says it all: the title of this trope only makes sense to those familiar with the source material. Otherwise it's meaningless. I think this is probably grounds for a rename, yes? Unfortunately I don't have any ideas as yet...suggestions welcome.

Title fixed. You don't need to put spaces when Wiki Wording it.

Stats:

Hmm...not to much, but there's quite a few. Should we just rename it due to low numbers, or should we check for misuse first?

edited 26th Aug '11 7:47:33 PM by chihuahua0

check for misuse

Misuse would be the trifecta of reasons it's a bad name, on top of Character-named, and "requires familiarity with a work to make sense". But yeah, I'll do a wick check.

edited 26th Aug '11 8:29:07 PM by Madrugada

So far:

SINKHOLES (1):

1. 30 Rock (WMG page): By the finale of Season 5 (or less likely, during the first episode of Season 6), Kenneth will have either taken over NBC or Kabletown by some strange confluence of incidents, historical or otherwise, or doomed everyone one way or another. sinkholed to "wise".

DON'T KNOW (3):

1. Pantheon.Beast: (regarding Swarm) Has a deal with Main.Chance The Gardener - everything that grows in the Pantheon gets pollinated, even the maneating plants, a tithe of honey every month - and in return, Swarm gets every melted puddle of ice cream in the Pantheon and something new to think about every other day.
2. Blockhead: Chance the Gardener: Blockhead in "Time Squad"
3. Book Dumb: The writers of The OC seemed unsure whether Summer Roberts was merely Book Dumb or The Ditz. She seems to vary with different episodes, and at least one episode hinted she was more Chance the Gardener ("what is a Jihad?").

CORRECT (6):

1. Main.Being There: Chance the Gardener: Trope namer. Pointless, but correct.
2. Blank Slate: Compare Chance the Gardener, who is similarly uninformed and thrust into a "new" world,...
3. Bunny-Ears Lawyer: * Danny Hua in Nukees is a sweet-tempered Cloud Cuckoo Lander who can't follow most basic metaphors, ... There currently is a small contingent of groupies who have decided he is the Wise One for his incomprehensible, unintentionally profound-seeming speech quirks.
4. PlayingWith.Cloudcuckoolander: Double Subverted: ...And then turns out to be Chance the Gardener.
5. Beavis And Butthead: Chance the Gardener: About three out of every five episodes.
6. Life Of Brian: Chance the Gardener: Brian, arguably; several of the other prophets, assuredly.

INCORRECT (6):

1. Adaptation Expansion: Being There is largely faithful to the book, ...it also adds a character, Dr. Allenby, who gives the story a climax when he discovers Chance the Gardener's true identity. referring to the character himself, not the trope.
2. Adaptational Attractiveness: In an inversion of this trope Being There: Chance the Gardener is described as looking like a cross between Ted Kennedy (in the early 1970s) and Cary Grant. Peter Sellers played the character in the film, and is not generally considered to have a dashing appearance. Referring to the character, not the trope.
3. Adam and/or Eve: In Being There, the first person Chance the Gardener gets to know at length outside of his old home — and garden — is a woman named Eve Rand. Referring to the character, not the trope.
4. Awesome.Being There: He wanted to play Chance the Gardener because he identified so much with him,... Referring to the character, not the trope.
5. Main.Being There: Chance the Gardener is a middle-aged, mentally-challenged man... Referring to the character, not the trope.
6. Pantheon.Chaos: Peter Sellers As his last work of high art, he cleansed his soul to create a purer identity Referring to the role, not the trope.

Chance the Gardener pages (3):

1. Chance the Gardener
2. PlayingWith.Chance The Gardener
3. Laconic.Chance The Gardener

Indexes (2):

1. Characters as Device
2. Contrived Stupidity Tropes

Out of 21 so far we have 6 correct, 3 that are pages for the same trope and 2 that are indexes.

Of the other 10, six refer to the character, not the trope, 1 is a sinkhole that doesn't seem to refer to anything, and 3 I don't know.

edited 26th Aug '11 9:26:47 PM by Madrugada

The Life Of Brian and Beavis And Butthead examples are correct. Don't know about the others, being unfamiliar with the works.

Duly amended the list. Thank you.

So we have:

5 that are just the trope name (the three on the Chance the Gardener pages and the two indexes),

1 sinkhole,

3 "don't know"s, and

6 each of correct and clearly incorrect, with all of the wrong ones being about the character, not the trope.

edited 26th Aug '11 9:26:24 PM by Madrugada

So, wait, what is the (soon to be former, I bet) Trope Namer, here...?

The book and movie Being There

...I really want to read that book and see that movie now.

So, what, this is a subtrope of The Gump? Instead of famous historical events, per se, it's more about just everyday life situations?

Correct me if I'm wrong, it's really goddamned late here...

If so, I'd recommend Accidental VIP, unless we're utterly against acronyms. It's too late for other interesting titles out of me...

No, it's character who is a fool, but what he says sounds like it must be profound, so people think that he's wise/an expert/really knowledgeable.

Ah, so it's a subtrope of Dumb Is Good?

Hm... Snow Koan Machine...

Edit: Bleh... the actual trope there is Ice-Cream Koan, but, I think it could work, if I'm remembering that trope right, which I seem to be bad at, today...

edited 26th Aug '11 9:54:00 PM by USAF713

Related, but not exactly a subtrope.

I can't think of a way to put it that isn't about 10 words long...

Charisma Born From Stupidity?

Whoever You Need Me To Be?

The Wise Fool?

The Ignorant Sage?

It should probably be Charisma Born From Ignorance, actually.

If we go with "The Wise Fool," we could use "The Sophomore."

Is Dumb Sounds Profound

Profound Fool?

I like Profound Fool. (Really, I like Whoever You Need Me To Be, but that may just be a love of Peter Sellers.)

edited 26th Aug '11 10:51:00 PM by Aldheim

Mistaken for Profound?

That's an action, not a character type, though.

Profound Fool is good.

Supporting.

There is now a single proposition rename crowner for this trope here.

I think that the work-specific, character-named nature of this trope title, combined with the misuse that Madrugada pointed out, make it pretty clear that it needs a rename.

edited 27th Aug '11 1:10:48 PM by LouieW

And the reason I suggested that other name is that it actually describes Chance in both the book and the movie, as well as some of the other examples.

Should we split?